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Jodi Moisan
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Posted: 12 September 2008 at 12:34pm | IP Logged | 1  

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sa20q2s2BRs



Edited by Jodi Moisan on 12 September 2008 at 12:36pm
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Scott Richards
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Posted: 12 September 2008 at 1:21pm | IP Logged | 2  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oM3Ls8NNc5Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4fe9GlWS8

Edited to include correct links.

 



Edited by Scott Richards on 12 September 2008 at 2:08pm
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Jason Czeskleba
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Posted: 12 September 2008 at 2:57pm | IP Logged | 3  

 Scott Richards wrote:
Based on the intelligence provided to Congress, to be against it back in 2002 was the wrong decision (in Congress).  So his stance on this is against what I would have wanted (again based on the intelligence we knew of at the time). 


Here's what I wrote back on page 178 of this thread in response to that argument.  I'll repeat it here:

Despite the vigorous attempts to rewrite history by war supporters, the fact is that the available 2002 intelligence did not clearly and unambiguously support the notion that Iraq had WMD and posed an immediate threat to the US.   The available intelligence was ambiguous at best, and most of the people who opposed the war did so on the basis that they did not believe Iraq had WMD or posed an immediate threat to the US.   Most people who opposed the war felt that at minimum we ought to be more sure about our intelligence before embarking on this war.

You seem to be characterizing Obama's 2002 position as "Well, the intelligence shows he has WMD and is a threat to us, but I'm still against the war."  When in fact his real position was that he did not believe there were WMD or any immediate threat to the US, and that was why he opposed the war.  

Obama does not only deserve credit for having the foresight to predict the outcome of the war, he deserves credit for looking at the available intelligence being presented and seeing through the holes and flaws in it, and for being skeptical.
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Keith Elder
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Posted: 12 September 2008 at 3:13pm | IP Logged | 4  

Jason,

Is there a record from 2002 of Obama giving his reasons for opposing the war?
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Michael Penn
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Posted: 12 September 2008 at 3:43pm | IP Logged | 5  

From Obama's 2002 speech:

Now let me be clear - I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power. He has repeatedly defied UN resolutions, thwarted UN inspection teams, developed chemical and biological weapons, and coveted nuclear capacity. He's a bad guy. The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him.

But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors, that the Iraqi economy is in shambles, that the Iraqi military a fraction of its former strength, and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history. I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a US occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences. I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of Al Qaeda. I am not opposed to all wars. I'm opposed to dumb wars.

Here's the whole speech:

http://www.barackobama.com/2002/10/02/remarks_of_illinois_st ate_sen.php



Edited by Michael Penn on 12 September 2008 at 3:44pm
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Al Cook
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Posted: 12 September 2008 at 3:49pm | IP Logged | 6  

Filthy psychic commie.
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Keith Elder
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Posted: 12 September 2008 at 3:53pm | IP Logged | 7  

Thank, Michael
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Michael Penn
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Posted: 12 September 2008 at 3:57pm | IP Logged | 8  

You're welcome -- I hope I didn't improperly jump into a request to Jason!
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Keith Elder
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Posted: 12 September 2008 at 4:02pm | IP Logged | 9  

Nah, the proper thing would probably have been for me to look it up myself.  But I figured there's probably a dozen people here who have the text of every Obama speech saved on their hard-drive...

While I think there were legitimate reasons for going to war back in 2002, it doesn't seem like you can fault Obama for his stance.
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Jeff Gillmer
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Posted: 12 September 2008 at 7:37pm | IP Logged | 10  

Obama's new ad about John McCain being old...

 

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Dave Pruitt
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Posted: 12 September 2008 at 7:48pm | IP Logged | 11  

Someone told me that Tina Fey is hosting SNL, next week! That should be fun.
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Jason Czeskleba
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Posted: 12 September 2008 at 10:08pm | IP Logged | 12  

The scheduled host for SNL's season premiere this weekend is Michael Phelps.  It's hard to imagine they won't get Tina to play Sarah Palin in a sketch, though.
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