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Michael Penn
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Posted: 12 September 2008 at 9:22am | IP Logged | 1  

I know what a pearl clutch is but -- what does the adjective "pearl-clutching" mean?

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Tom French
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Posted: 12 September 2008 at 9:26am | IP Logged | 2  

Michael, one "clutches their pearls" (a la June Cleaver) when something shocking happens -- in a '50's kitsch kind of way. 

The captain of the football team has just come out?  (clutch pearls)

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Geoff Gibson
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Posted: 12 September 2008 at 9:27am | IP Logged | 3  

The captain of the football team has just come out?

I love my dead gay son!

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William McCormick
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Posted: 12 September 2008 at 9:30am | IP Logged | 4  

I simply replied to Scott because of his smarmy reply to me.

I'm sorry if you took me saying Palin wasn't running for President as smarmy.  That wasn't the tone I was thinking when I typed it.  I was thinking of it in a humorous way when I posted it.

************

No problem Scott. I very well may have misunderstood the way you intended.

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Donald Miller
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Posted: 12 September 2008 at 9:35am | IP Logged | 5  

Nice one Geoff...I love that movie.  You've reminded me it's time to see it again.

don
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Keith Elder
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Posted: 12 September 2008 at 9:36am | IP Logged | 6  

Geoff:  "As I have said before, I’m running for President to build an America that lives up to our founding promise of equality for all — a promise that certainly extends to the LGBT community. I do envision a time when we all enjoy that promise, but we have to work hard to get there. LGBT Americans deserve real change, and they deserve it now. Certainly as a nation we can all agree that discrimination has no place in our America.  Same-sex couples face legal discrimination every day — that we can, and must, end — by repealing DOMA, providing federal rights and responsibilities to same-sex families, and supporting LGBT parents, to start. And we need to remember that it’s not just couples that need protection — we need to pass long overdue legislation that ends employment discrimination, enhances hate crimes protections, and repeals “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell.”

Geoff, that seems to be Obama careful talking around whether he supports gay marriage or not.  Is there anywhere that he clearly says gays should be allowed to marry?

I'm for civil unions, by the way, for both Gay and Straight.  Marriage is a personal/philosophical/religious concept; the state should only care about the legal end of it.
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Kevin Hagerman
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Posted: 12 September 2008 at 9:51am | IP Logged | 7  

I know what a pearl clutch is but -- what does the adjective "pearl-clutching" mean?

--------------------

I know what "pearl-clutching" is (obviously; I wrote it) but I did NOT know there was such a thing as a pearl clutch!  Sounds like a gay transmission...

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Geoff Gibson
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Posted: 12 September 2008 at 9:52am | IP Logged | 8  

Geoff, that seems to be Obama careful talking around whether he supports gay marriage or not.  Is there anywhere that he clearly says gays should be allowed to marry?

He has not said that, I can fully stipulate to that.  He has said Marriage is between a man and woman.  Saying otherwise in this political environment would be suicidal.  But he has not said that he opposes gay marriage, and his actions indicate that he would not act to stop states from marrying gays and that by calling for repeal of DOMA it would open the door for forcing other states, including those that ban gay marriage, to recognize the gay marriages performed in other states under principles of comity and under the Full Faith and Credit Clause.  The distinction is subtle but its a distinction nonetheless.

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Andrew Hess
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Posted: 12 September 2008 at 11:00am | IP Logged | 9  

Sorry, I kinda dozed off for a few pages there.

Did anyone post this yet?

http://www.michaelpalinforpresident.com/

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Jason Czeskleba
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Posted: 12 September 2008 at 11:21am | IP Logged | 10  

Damn, every day I get up and this thread is like five pages past the point it was at when I went to bed last night. 

Regarding the suggestion that Hillary might have turned down the offer to be Vice President:  right after Obama clinched the nomination, Hillary made several public statements that she was willing to be Vice President and would like to be chosen.  I doubt that she was lying or that she changed her mind two months later, though I guess it's remotely possible.  If she did turn the job down, I think Obama might actually have revealed that, to forestall disgruntled Clinton supporters claiming she was snubbed.

Scott, you do realize that Clinton was for just about every big government "Marxist" program Obama is now for.  If he's a "Marxist" then so is she.
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Jason Czeskleba
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Posted: 12 September 2008 at 12:08pm | IP Logged | 11  

 Scott Richards wrote:
I think she would be willing to do so under the same terms as Obama.  19 months after the request.


Which would be after the election is over, so hardly the same thing.  But we'll see.  Assuming McCain wins, I don't think Palin has the guts to sit for a no-holds-barred interview with a partisan/hostile journalist even a year into McCain's Presidency.  I don't think she will ever do it.

 Scott Richards wrote:
Since Palin's stance on it is no different than Obama's I'm not sure how that's an issue.  I am in no way in favor of civil unions.  I want full on marriage.  If a candidate doesn't back that, they are against gay marriage.


Let's see:  Obama:  Opposes federal legislation on gay marriage, both for an against.  Opposes Constitutional Amendment against gay marriage.  Supports domestic partnerships.  A supporter of gay rights in general.

Palin:  Opposes laws allowing for gay marriage.  Supports Constitutional amendment banning gay marriage.  Opposes domestic partnerships.  Attends a church that endorses the idea that gays can be "cured."

Yep, no difference there.  You're being willfully disingenuous I think.  Beyond the policy differences, it's obvious that Obama opposes gay marriage legalization laws because it's a political hot potato that could cost him the election, whereas Palin opposes them because of deep-seated religious beliefs.  Do you really think gay marriage would be equally unlikely under either of them?

Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 12 September 2008 at 12:08pm
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Scott Richards
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Posted: 12 September 2008 at 12:21pm | IP Logged | 12  

Being at work, sometimes these pages fly by before I see them.  I was just glancing back and saw where Geoff said:

 

How do his proposed programs differ substantively from Senator Clinton's?

 

Part of this is going to depend on the use of “substantively” I guess.  What might be a big issue for me may not be a big issue for someone else.  Either way, here goes my feelings on this since ideologically, Clinton and Obama aren’t close one two of my biggest things.  National Security and Illegal Immigration.  National security is my number one issue because of the current world environment and it’s the one that has the biggest influence on my vote more than any other issue.  This is all going on memory based on what I found earlier in the year and it’s been months since I had to think about what Clinton’s stance on the issues were.

 

Iraq War (National Security) – Obama says he was against it from the beginning even though he wasn’t in office in the beginning.  One can surmise that if he were in office, if he was being honest, he would have voted against it, as he says.  Based on the intelligence provided to Congress, to be against it back in 2002 was the wrong decision (in Congress).  So his stance on this is against what I would have wanted (again based on the intelligence we knew of at the time).  Clinton voted for it, which went along with my views.  There is a fundamental difference between them here on something I feel strongly about (National Security).  Of course, hindsight being 20/20, we should never have gone in there, but since Congress couldn’t see the future they had to go with what they were given.  Personally, I’m still not sure that the WMD just didn’t make their way to Syria.

 

In this area there was also the issue of cluster bombs if I’m remembering right.  IMO, they are valid for use in a time of war.  I completely understand why some people would be against them, but I’m not one of them.  Obama wanted to limit them.  Clinton didn’t.  At times of war, I’m not willing to take any option off the table and do not think that a President who would is fit for the position of Commander in Chief.

 

I believe Clinton would be a strong Commander in Chief and Obama wouldn’t.

 

Illegal Immigration – This is one of the few social issues where I do not lean to the left.  Clinton was never for allowing illegal immigrants to have driver’s licenses where Obama wanted them to have them.  This is a huge, huge issue for me.  The word “illegal” in illegal immigrant is there for a reason.  These are not “undocumented workers” as some people like to call them.  These are criminals.  They are breaking the law.  I’m for being much harsher on illegal immigration.  There is no reason to allow illegal immigrants to have a state issued driver’s license.  As a matter of fact, I’d institute extremely harsh financial penalties and jail time for executives at any US company caught employing illegals within our borders.  I’d also enact a three-strikes-and-you-are-out law.  If an illegal were caught here 3 times they would be banned from ever being approved for citizenship in the future.  The mechanism is there for people to apply to come to the US legally.  I’m not completely thrilled with Clinton’s stance on illegals but it aligns with my views a lot more than Obama’s does. 

 

Environment – There are some environmental difference between them.  If I recall correctly (it’s been a while), Obama was for enforcing auto makers to comply with a high mile per gallon fuel economy on all their vehicles (some where around 40mpg but I might be misremembering) in less than a decade.  Clinton was against that that time frame.  You can’t fit 50 pounds of rocks in a 10 pound bag.  Automakers work years and years in advance of the models currently on the market.  Mandating standards is fine as long as there is a reasonable time frame involved.  The unrealistic time-frame supported by Obama says to me that he has no understanding of it.  Fifteen years maybe, but not less than a decade.  Another example is ethanol.  Ethanol is a dead end, IMO.  When mixed with gasoline it decreases the fuel efficiency.  It takes more energy to create a gallon of ethanol than a gallon of ethanol provides.  Any ethanol created from food stuffs just increases the cost of food during a time when the economy cannot handle it.  Rather than putting another dime into ethanol we should be focusing on other alternative sources of energy.  There are lots of things we can do to help the environment, but tying the hands of an already struggling auto industry is going to hurt the economy even more if it leads to layoffs, bankruptcies and bail outs in the industry.  Obama is too “green” for me.  There has to be a balance.  We can’t get there immediately.  We need to use our existing energy sources, including expanding fossil fuels, while, at the same time, investing in new energies and technologies.  Then in a decade or two, as the balance starts to shift away from fossil fuels and toward the new technologies/sources we’ll be better off.  Even Clinton is too green for me (but not as much as Obama).  In this area, McCain is closest to where I fall environmentally.

 

Geez, that took forever.  I’m glad things are a bit slow here today.  :P

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