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David Ferguson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 6782
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| Posted: 30 March 2008 at 6:39am | IP Logged | 1
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It is the aspiration of which all our laws on the subject are based.
The only constitution the firmly states that a country will not go to war is Japan's (as co-written by the US).
Switzerland doesn't even mention neutrality in theirs and they're possibly the most famous of all neutral countries.
There is a difference between war and peace keeping. I wasn't slighting Irish peace keepers. They are among the best and most well respected in the world and my grandfather used to be one (in Cyprus).
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David Ferguson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 6782
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| Posted: 30 March 2008 at 6:42am | IP Logged | 2
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The Japanese constitution:
CHAPTER II: RENUNCIATION OF WAR
Article 9:
Aspiring sincerely to an international peace based on justice and order, the Japanese people forever renounce war as a sovereign right of the nation and the threat or use of force as means of settling international disputes. 2) In order to accomplish the aim of the preceding paragraph, land, sea, and air forces, as well as other war potential, will never be maintained. The right of belligerency of the state will not be recognized.
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Michael Casselman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 January 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1266
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| Posted: 30 March 2008 at 7:53am | IP Logged | 3
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Just curious how someone could attribute a pattern of anti-Obamaism based on one post
**********************
When you say the following: If this is the best
counter-argument that die-hard Obama apologists can come up with, it's
going to start to look like they aren't even trying.
Your "anti-Obamaism" is quite revealing.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ If 'wanting a more nuanced answer than throwing your own Grandmother's feelings about race into the discussion' is anti-Obamaism, guilty as charged. For all the 'inspiration', 'moving', 'straightforward' and 'awe-inspiring' comments made about Obama's speeches, his defense of Wright and his association with Wright was lacking. He repeatedly attempted to put Wright's quotes in context,telling us that we have to understand black churches, and the root
of their anger, or whatever ~ comparing them to Geraldine Ferraro's
quote ~ comparing them to conservative talk radio hosts ~ comparing
them to everyone else's priests or rabbis, and how 'every church is like this' ~ and, finally, comparing
them to his white racist granny. It was one long and tortuous attempt to place the
comments in context -- and equivocate them.
If you say you've gone through life and never
experienced a momentary pause from being scared or concerned for your
safety because of a group of people, especially when you're alone, then
you're the only one. Everyone has experienced that in their life.
Whether you're a kid or an adult. That's how prejudices are born.....
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Sorry... I'm just not seeing as how you can equivocate individual 'gut feelings', that may (or just as likely, may not) be a result of a difference in race, to the philosophy of a church that follows Dr. Cone's word. That's an awful wide net to cast, IMO.
Old people creeped me out when I was a kid. They were wrinkly, they had that 'old person smell', they came up and pinched my cheeks and stuff... Girls used be yucky and had all sorts of cooties. But God forbid I be alone in either group of them! Unless someone had some sort of traumatic experience to trigger fear, loathing and mistrust in the future, you adapt, adopt and overcome initial misgivings about unfamiliar groups. Otherwise, you walk around afraid of your own shadow for the rest of your life.
I'm just really tying to understand how his supporters can say he's trying to unite when he belongs to a church that is founded upon such a premise.
As I was alluding to earlier, Trent Lott was rode out of town for paying, in relative context, a few kinds words to an old man on his birthday. Obama chooses to remain with a Church that is founded upon the destruction of white people. I can't imagine why I'm the slightest bit uncomfortable with that.
But that's just me loving to "ridicule" something "I hadn't heard". I'm just some typical white dude. :-)
Edited by Michael Casselman on 30 March 2008 at 7:57am
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Kevin Hagerman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 18349
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| Posted: 30 March 2008 at 8:07am | IP Logged | 4
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Trent Lott said virtually the exact same kind words on an earlier occasion - the birthday platitude excuse doesn't hold water. And he wasn't rode out of town. The White House hung him out to dry in favor of William Frist and so he resigned his Senate leadership position. He remained in the Senate another five years before retiring.
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Michael Casselman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 January 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1266
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| Posted: 30 March 2008 at 11:07am | IP Logged | 5
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I didn't recall the previous Lott/Thurmond incident (20+ years previous, which I haven't been able to find quotes from) ~ and I'd be the last to say Lott was a Saint, given his civil rights voting history and well-documented opinions on homosexuality ~ but I think it still came down to a quick quip trying to pay accolades to a fellow statesman (when someone asks you to some a few positive words about a person, you don't necessarily throw in caveats or throw them under the bus). Still, did Lott and Thurmond have as personal and spiritual a relationship as Obama and Wright? And even if so, Lott's credibility, as it was, took a substantial beating for however long he remained, all over 'a few words'. He had long outstayed his welcome.
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Mike O'Brien
Byrne Robotics Member
Official JB Historian
Joined: 18 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10927
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| Posted: 30 March 2008 at 2:25pm | IP Logged | 6
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wait - "destruction of white people"? Come again? My understanding was that the church was founded on something having to do with Jesus Christ.
If you don't have an agenda, you certainly have a bizarre way of misunderstanding things.
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David Ferguson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 6782
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| Posted: 30 March 2008 at 3:28pm | IP Logged | 7
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I used to kind of respect Hillary until I found out the following:
1) She's pretty much a Republican
2) She's running her campaign based on a fallacy - she has more experience. Being the spouse of someone doing a job doesn't give you experience. I go out with an IT expert but I won't be putting IT expert on my CV. Also, it'll backfire if she faces McCain.
3) (the silliest but still...) the Bosnian shooting non-incident. I'm sorry but that asked for a disclaimer at the end "dramatisation. may not have happened" in a quick low voice.
Btw I hope you US guys don't mind me throwing in my two cents on your general election.
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Mike O'Brien
Byrne Robotics Member
Official JB Historian
Joined: 18 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10927
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| Posted: 30 March 2008 at 3:56pm | IP Logged | 8
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No, David, some of us agree...
er, at least those who aren't hiding in fear from the hate-speach of churches that keep the white man down....
I know.... it's like hiding from the bananafish that keep the water dry, but, hey! Some people will believe anything...
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Kevin Hagerman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 18349
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| Posted: 30 March 2008 at 4:42pm | IP Logged | 9
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David, it's perfectly fine to say whatever you please about another country's political situation. It only gets delicate if you are yourself a head of state (a few years back some asshole gotcha reporter got Bush to chime in in JUST such a way).
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Neil Lindholm
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: China
Posts: 4942
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| Posted: 30 March 2008 at 6:28pm | IP Logged | 10
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Also remember that the US Presidential Election is followed around the world because of the effect American policies have on every other country. Even the Chinese television news talks about it.
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Kevin Brown
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 May 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9126
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| Posted: 31 March 2008 at 9:08am | IP Logged | 11
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The Clinton campaign is in financial trouble: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/9259.html
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Geoff Gibson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5744
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| Posted: 31 March 2008 at 2:48pm | IP Logged | 12
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So maybe the ones really calling for her to quit are her creditors . . . .
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