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Keith Elder Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 1973
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| Posted: 11 September 2008 at 11:44am | IP Logged | 1
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I think that every dollar from the government that goes toward helping kids with tuition results in tuition being raised by one dollar. In other words, the price will inevitably rise up to the point to where it becomes just as much of a struggle as before.
College is far less about education than it is about selling a signed piece of paper for the highest price possible.
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Keith Elder Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 1973
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| Posted: 11 September 2008 at 11:53am | IP Logged | 2
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Al: Exactly! If I had to take the two major U.S. political parties and drop them
on a graph of the Canadian spectrum, they'd both be mid-to-far-right.
Your Democrats are barely less conservative than our Conservatives!
That point's been made a lot in this thread... but couldn't we instead say that Canadian (or European, the other often-cited example) conservatives are barely less socialist than the liberals, and both are firmly entrenched in the far left end?
In other word, to rephrase Knut, maybe European liberals and conservatives are Seattle and Portland, while US Dems are... um... Denver?... and reps are New York.
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Bruce Buchanan Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 14 June 2006 Location: United States Posts: 4797
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| Posted: 11 September 2008 at 11:55am | IP Logged | 3
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Keith, I think you are right about the cost of college and financial aid. If we pump more money into federal financial aid, then the colleges are just going to raise tuition rates accordingly.
For some reason (and perhaps someone far smarter than I can answer why), college tuition rates have gone up at a far faster rate than inflation in the past 20 years. I think you'll always have a situation where some people have to struggle to pay for college.
Jodi, I have somewhat of the opposite concern. I'm concerned that we've tried to do this war in Iraq on the cheap. It troubles me to hear horror stories about our fighting men and women lacking the proper equipment and protective gear.
Whether or not you think the war was a good idea to start with, that ship already has sailed -- we're in it. I believe we have a moral obligation to give our brave troops the resources they need. As much as I hate taxes, that's one thing I don't mind paying for.
Edited by Bruce Buchanan on 11 September 2008 at 11:55am
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Lars Johansson Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 04 June 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 6113
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| Posted: 11 September 2008 at 11:57am | IP Logged | 4
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Have you seen the Swedish movie? If not you will be the first here, if it's watchable overseas. John McCain at the moment when he was relased from North Vietnam was found in an archive.
http://www.svt.se/svt/jsp/Crosslink.jsp?d=22584&a=124368 9&lid=puff_1243756&lpos=bild
(The reason why he isn't limping there but later when he meets with President Nixon is that he had surgery in between.)
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Valerie Finnigan Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 27 March 2006 Posts: 838
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| Posted: 11 September 2008 at 12:03pm | IP Logged | 5
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My family is swimming in debt at the moment because we're paying for Mr. Finnigan's third round of grad school while sending our kids to an (inexpensive, by the way) private school, and paying property and sales taxes to educate everyone else.
I have not been pleased with either party's plan to increase educational funding. Obama's got good ideas, but when a lot of funding is done at the state and district level, he will not and should not, as President, have the authority to implement a lot of them. McCain, as far as I can see, has no plan. Meanwhile, administrators who don't have anything to do with the actual job of educating students get paid way too much compared to teachers while asking for more and more money to fund everything but a fair wage for teachers.
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Jodi Moisan Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 19 February 2008 Location: United States Posts: 6808
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| Posted: 11 September 2008 at 12:05pm | IP Logged | 6
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Jodi, I have somewhat of the opposite concern. I'm concerned that we've tried to do this war in Iraq on the cheap. It troubles me to hear horror stories about our fighting men and women lacking the proper equipment and protective gear.
Whether or not you think the war was a good idea to start with, that ship already has sailed -- we're in it. I believe we have a moral obligation to give our brave troops the resources they need. As much as I hate taxes, that's one thing I don't mind paying for.
But they aren't getting what they need , not because the money is not there, it is because we have handed the money to private contractors that are lining their pockets.
Example: A friend of my son is in the Air Force, he said that the Marines chow is amazing because it is still made by fellow Marines, the Air Force contracts their food service out and that company is more concerned about their bottom line than the soldiers quality of food. He said it is disgusting.
another example:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10977706/
Edited by Jodi Moisan on 11 September 2008 at 12:06pm
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Geoff Gibson Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 21 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5744
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| Posted: 11 September 2008 at 12:11pm | IP Logged | 7
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Geoff, I didn't realize you were specifically limiting your critique to Scott's usage of a simple phrase which has long passed into common language as a handy means of denoting the moderation of political excess.
Probably, my fault, so that end mea culpa. I may not have been clear that I was doing that. I tend to think in more legalistic ways on certain things. Checks and balances to me means the constitutional system I've articulated. What Scott was describing is more or less a political process to my mind.
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Bruce Buchanan Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 14 June 2006 Location: United States Posts: 4797
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| Posted: 11 September 2008 at 12:14pm | IP Logged | 8
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But is that a problem with private contracting itself or an oversight/quality control problem, Jodi?
Agencies at all levels of government contract out various services. For example, the local school system here contracts out its custodial services because it's cheaper than employing school janitors. So far, that seems to be working well.
But I do feel that if a government agency hires a contractor, that company must be held accountable for the services they provide. If the Air Force is getting crummy food from an outside vendor, then that's a problem and it should be addressed.
Edited by Bruce Buchanan on 11 September 2008 at 12:15pm
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Scott Richards Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 22 September 2005 Posts: 1258
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| Posted: 11 September 2008 at 12:17pm | IP Logged | 9
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I'm not for free college for everyone. --- This one I don't have a strong opinion on, but I'm curious - why? Should we charge for pre-college education? Should only the rich afford a higher education? Is that really what's best for America?
Because a higher education isn't a right. It's available to every one who wants to work for it be it a second job, student loans, scholarships, etc. Our tax dollars shouldn't go to some below average student who doesn't really care about an education. I paid my own way through school via student loans and working 2 (and at one point 3) jobs. I was dirt poor and worked my ass off for it because I wanted it. Anyone else could do the same if they truly want it.
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Scott Richards Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 22 September 2005 Posts: 1258
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| Posted: 11 September 2008 at 12:19pm | IP Logged | 10
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Bruce, you are correct, he is not.
So Bruce and I have the exact same view point but he's correct, I'm not and you're an ass? Does that sum it up?
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Bruce Buchanan Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 14 June 2006 Location: United States Posts: 4797
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| Posted: 11 September 2008 at 12:22pm | IP Logged | 11
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C'mon, Scott -- that's uncalled for.
Edited by Bruce Buchanan on 11 September 2008 at 12:23pm
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Scott Richards Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 22 September 2005 Posts: 1258
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| Posted: 11 September 2008 at 12:23pm | IP Logged | 12
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Scroll back through the pages at some of the vile garbage he's posted about people. It was most definitely called for.
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