Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
The John Byrne Forum
Byrne Robotics > The John Byrne Forum << Prev Page of 1093 Next >>
Topic: US Presidential Election (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
Geoff Gibson
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5744
Posted: 10 September 2008 at 7:35am | IP Logged | 1  

She doesn't believe in book banning

Of course she "believes" in book banning or some form of censorship.  On some level everyone believes in censorship, particularly of generally agreed to obscene materials.  For example, most people agree that the sale of child pornography is rightly banned and should be illegal to sell in the United States. But that is a reasonable restriction on the protections of the constitution.  Palin's alleged* acts are troubling because of the purported basis of her inquiry.  The question that should be framed to politicians is not do you believe in censorship; its how do you define free expression?  Are words that challenge, repudiate or mock your politics, faith or beliefs tolerated or do you believe they are so offensive and dangerous that the constitutional protections of the first amendment must be suspended.  Does the person ask "how much can I allow" or do they ask "how much can I restrict?"  Whether a politician believes in censorship is a poor question -- where he or she draws the line on free speech is much more pertinent and reveals much more about the person's character. 

*I say alleged here because I am not entirely conversant in the facts of the story and I did not understand it to be completely verified, I don't want to make a false accusation about Governor Palin.



Edited by Geoff Gibson on 10 September 2008 at 7:37am
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Donald Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 03 February 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 3601
Posted: 10 September 2008 at 7:41am | IP Logged | 2  

Geoff Said:
Whether a politician believes in censorship is a poor question -- where he or she draws the line on free speech is much more pertinent and reveals much more about the person's character.

Fair enough, I really doubt anyone here is supporting child pornography (please correct me if you are in support).  I still stand by statement that any politician who would pose the question...

"How would I go about removing books from the public library should it become necessary?"  is someone that would have no problem removing books from the public library, and I have a problem with that.

Don
Back to Top profile | search | www e-mail
 
Michael Myers
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 28 December 2004
Posts: 831
Posted: 10 September 2008 at 7:44am | IP Logged | 3  

While I see it as well within the bounds of fair play, I don't for an instant believe the 'lipstick' zinger was completely out of left field.  Even were that the case--just a hapless Democrat speech writer searching for a hook--Obama's campaign should have foreseen at least the possibility of pushback.  This is a presidential election, after all.


Edited by Michael Myers on 10 September 2008 at 8:26am
Back to Top profile | search
 
Scott Richards
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 22 September 2005
Posts: 1258
Posted: 10 September 2008 at 7:47am | IP Logged | 4  

I believe he chose those exact words specifically because of what Palin had
said.

••

Perhaps you can use your great mental powers to predict the winner and
save the Nation a whole lot of time and money.

Why the condescending tone?  I was in no way condescending in my response.

Edited to correct puncuation.



Edited by Scott Richards on 10 September 2008 at 7:49am
Back to Top profile | search
 
Geoff Gibson
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5744
Posted: 10 September 2008 at 7:47am | IP Logged | 5  

 I still stand by statement that any politician who would pose the question...

"How would I go about removing books from the public library should it become necessary?"  is someone that would have no problem removing books from the public library, and I have a problem with that
.

I quite agree! And that was what I was trying to articulate.  But I was also adressing the ridiculous notion that she did not believe in "banning books."  If you believe that there are appropriate instances that merit government restriction on speech or expression (distinguished from self or corporate restriction) then you believe, on some level, in censorship.  Her looking to ban certain books is evidence of that belief and raises questions of where her censorship "trigger" or barometer is. 

Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Christopher Alan Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 October 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2787
Posted: 10 September 2008 at 7:52am | IP Logged | 6  

Only Obama knows for sure what he meant. Those who claim he definately wasn't referring to Palin must be the ones with great mental powers. I think he was. I have no prove just an opinion. I may be wrong just like those on the other side may be wrong.

Edited by Christopher Alan Miller on 10 September 2008 at 7:53am
Back to Top profile | search
 
Al Cook
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 December 2004
Posts: 12735
Posted: 10 September 2008 at 7:53am | IP Logged | 7  

I'm looking forward to Scott Richards telling JB that how he phrases his
responses tells Scott everything he needs to know about JB.

Edited by Al Cook on 10 September 2008 at 7:56am
Back to Top profile | search
 
Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 13052
Posted: 10 September 2008 at 7:59am | IP Logged | 8  

Is Obama now expected to memorize everything Palin says?

***

Now and then, as a law professor, I have to engage in some long lectures -- upwards of four or five hours. And after that I am frazzled for the rest of the night until the next day. The amount of speaking-time a presidential candidate is forced to engage in strains the bounds of the possible. Four hours is a blip. Obama could easily be talking in any one of a vast varieties of ways to a vast variety of audiences a good 18 hours per day. But the media can split the atom of a mere second of that time and ride the shock waves for days. Meanwhile, Rome burns....

Sheesh.

Where's Joe Biden hiding?

Back to Top profile | search
 
Jeff Gillmer
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 30 August 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1920
Posted: 10 September 2008 at 8:15am | IP Logged | 9  

"Is Obama now expected to memorize everything Palin says?"
Everything, no.  But one would hope that he or his advisors would remember a specific line from her acceptance speech that got tons of applause and was talked about in the media ever since.

"Where's Joe Biden hiding?"
St. Louis.  Asking a man in a wheelchair to stand up.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Geoff Gibson
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5744
Posted: 10 September 2008 at 8:18am | IP Logged | 10  

Michael:

For your sake I pray that the 4 to 5 hour lectures are not on tax law!

Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Geoff Gibson
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5744
Posted: 10 September 2008 at 8:20am | IP Logged | 11  

"Where's Joe Biden hiding?"
St. Louis.  Asking a man in a wheelchair to stand up.

Biden fucked up.  He apologized.  Was it dumb? Yes.  Was it with bad intent?  I don't believe so.  Thats more a non-story story than the "lipstick" line.

Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Al Cook
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 December 2004
Posts: 12735
Posted: 10 September 2008 at 8:25am | IP Logged | 12  

I tried to make that point before, Geoff. Biden made a dumb mistake, but he
quickly recovered and turned it into an opportunity to pay respect to the
individual in question. I was impressed.

Maybe folks just need to be reminded that kind of thing can happen to
anyone...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifwBRRg1s5w&feature=related

Edited to provide better quality linked video.

Edited by Al Cook on 10 September 2008 at 8:28am
Back to Top profile | search
 

<< Prev Page of 1093 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login