Keith, I'm basing my reasons on exit poll information - people coming home from the elections in 04 said the most important thing for them was "value issues" - coincidentally, in key states, "gay marriage" was put on the ballot, and those states, with "values" exit polls, swung hard to the right.

I understand your "gut feeling" comment - it's like how, a few hundred pages earlier, it was pointed out that we don't see our side's media bias - I don't see the left being that savage in their attacks, but I do see it on the right - and using the same logic you're using, my formula says the public DOES respond to the attacks.  Etc.

So, it's a matter of perception, I suppose. 

Step back from this a moment - look at it with different eyes - sure, things have been rough for Pailin, because people generally don't like her (or love her, in the case of the Right) - was there this kind of vitriol, on this board, or in the media, for McCain? 

This is specific to Pailin.  It's not a left/right issue.  It's not media bias or civility.  People who like her LOVE her, and people who don't HATE her. 

I agree with that.  I can't help but wonder if Pailin was McCain's October Surprise, sprung early. 

It's possible that the reveal of her background and character over the next few months will effect the election one way or the other.

Here's a key factor - all the elections going back to Regan have been won or lost thanks to the "value voters" - Regan supported them, won.  Bush I kind of did, then didn't - won/lost.  Dole didn't - lost.  Bush did - won twice.  McCain didn't - they said they were going to sit this one out, but then he picked Pailin, who does support them, and now they're back in. 

Rove is right - they are the block to court.

But... my gut feeling is that we're in 1992 again.  Economy is in the crapper, and religion aside, the general public does tend to vote with their stomache.  Plus, the McCain/Pailin ticket is like the Bush/Quayle ticket - it kind of supports the fundementalists.... kind of... plus, add the economy woes, and the track record of recent republicans...

I don't know... I still feel very confident about Obama's chances.  Plus?  Erm, we have a few October suprises of our own. 

Keith - about your other point - it's about passing judgement.  You're saying - "I am passing the ultimate judgement - this person is fit to live, this person should be killed".

Funny how spiritual and/or religious people take a side in that, eh?  I'm no expert, but I seem to recall a few things about "I am the Lord, your God, you shall have no other Gods before me", "judge not, lest ye be judged" and "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone".

But what do I know?  I'm sure, considering how many various people contributed to that book, that there's a contradictory verse in Leviticus or something that says "Ignore all thoes other things, it's totally acceptable to pass the ultimate judgement and play God with your fellow humans."

Is proud know be on the same planet as William McCormick.

I'm proud (and happy) to be on the same planet as any one in the forum.  The alternative would be to die a horrible death from either a lack of oxygen or the harsh environment or both.

For the October Surprise factor, in my opinion, the bigger threat is to Obama.  McCain has campaigned to be President more than once.  He's been a politician for years.  Anything horrible in his closet would have come out ages ago.

Obama, on the other hand, is very new on the scene.  He's never been under close observation as he is now.  He's never had years and years of people digging into is past.  There could be some very damaging things about him that haven't yet been made public.

I can respect, though disagree with, the pro-life movement for their view that life begins with conception and is sacred.  But if life is sacred, is not all life sacred?  Should not one who is pro-life also support the abolition of the death penalty?  I've never gotten that disconnect.

As for the left or right spewing bile both do it well and in equal amounts.  No one side is free of such a charge.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone".

Plunk!

"Ouch!  Okay now who's the wise guy around here? Oh, Shit! Daaad! You never let me be fun and all judgmental!"