So how do we know where, exactly life begins?  At conception?  At three months?  Are you a mass murderer every time you spill seed?  Have you, as Bill Hicks suggests, wiped whole civilizations off your navel with a dirty sweat sock?

Here's the thing - all of us have our beliefs, but no one knows.   Do you know why?  Because we're not God.  That's what Barack Obama meant when he suggested the question was above his paygrade.

I highly respect a politician who doesn't think he's God.

Mike wrote: I'm not afraid of words, of the english language.  I applaud William for speaking his mind.

This is good to know. The next time you quote or post a link to something controversial coming from the "filthy" mouth of John McCain, or anyone else you don't agree with, I expect applause.

Life - in terms of a unique individual arising from the vast sea of potential individuals - begins at conception.

Big fucking deal.  If a woman doesn't want to have a baby, as far as I'm concerned she's being asked to keep a tumor.

Mike wrote: It's getting to the point where we can set a watch by when one of you ask me if I'm not "better than that".

Source? You're better than that. I pity you. :)

If nothing else comes out of this thread, that bit alone is pure gold. Good one, Mike.

This is good to know. The next time you quote or post a link to something controversial coming from the "filthy" mouth of John McCain, or anyone else you don't agree with, I expect applause.

Dave, I'm not applauding him on principle, I'm applauding him because I agree with him.

If nothing else comes out of this thread, that bit alone is pure gold. Good one, Mike.

Touche.  Here's the thing - the first time someone asked it, back in 2002, it was, you know - "zing!  They sure got me with that ol' meaningless debate chestnut!"  But it's been repeated so many times that it's become a parody of itself. 

Oh - uh, just to "play the game" as it were... I called John McCain's mouth filthy when he used it to refer to Asians as "gooks".

Tell me you see the difference between William McCormick referring to a politician as a cunt on a message board and John McCain, Presidential Candidate referring to Asians as "gooks".

Mike wrote: I stand by what William said.  I may not, in this case, have used the same words - but I understand where he's coming from, and I respect him for saying it.  I'm not going to hide behind fear of words, false civility or Politically Correct talk.

Mike wrote: Dave, I'm not applauding him on principle, I'm applauding him because I agree with him.

Thank you for that distinction. As long as you agree with something or someone, you're okay with expressions like that being used. I understand. There is a difference between McCain saying what he said, and Joe Blow saying something offensive. I do understand that distinction. McCain was talking only about his captors and interigators though, not Asians in general, and he said it was the kindest epithet he could use to describe them. I understand where he's coming from, and while I can't say I respect him for saying it, I can't really fault him either.