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David Ferguson Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 17 March 2007 Location: Ireland Posts: 6782
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| Posted: 06 September 2008 at 1:25pm | IP Logged | 1
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He sure mentioned God a lot in his convention speech. That and "fight".
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Michael Retour Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 27 May 2006 Posts: 932
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| Posted: 06 September 2008 at 1:26pm | IP Logged | 2
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Don't let the fake unemployment figures fool you.
The numbers the BLS releases are worthless really. You'd have to get the actual BLS reports and wade through them to see what I mean. I do believe .pdfs of the reports on online and you can get them.
One would have to break down what sort of jobs, what do they pay, etc. and then factor in all the folks who are no longer counted as being unemployed because once their benefits run out they are no longer counted as being unemployed. Then count the ones who want full time work but can't find it. Then you might have a rough approximation of real unemployment figures.
The government won't do this sort of calculation because it would expose certain uncomfortable truths.
More and more of these economic realities can't be hidden because it is apparent in our roads, our schools, our hospitals, our energy grid, our transportation systems, our water management systems, etc.
It is like inflation numbers released by the government. Inflation is much higher than claimed by the government.
It is like banking and the news (everyone in any sort of related business at a certain level knew it) that Freddie and Fannie need a welfare bailout. The flea market didn't work so well for them (nor did it for Bear Stearns). The plan won't work but Bush et al. just keep pushing on and by the time the thing doesn't work Bush will be gone and Paulson just another failed Fed chief, like Greenspan is.
Prosperity is a term that is relative. Yes, the USA is quite prosperous compared to an African living in the Sudan. I agree.
Truth just chokes some folks up.
Edited by Michael Retour on 06 September 2008 at 1:42pm
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David Ferguson Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 17 March 2007 Location: Ireland Posts: 6782
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| Posted: 06 September 2008 at 1:27pm | IP Logged | 3
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Also, I thought Obama would be the one, of the two candidates, to have the more aspirational speech at their parties' convention but I think McCain was more aspirational and Obama had more substance. Just my opinion.
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Michael Huber Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 27 August 2007 Location: United States Posts: 3338
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| Posted: 06 September 2008 at 2:01pm | IP Logged | 4
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Prosperity is a term that is relative. Yes, the USA is quite prosperous compared to an African living in the Sudan. I agree.
Gee, I just finished a siciallogy class last semester, and according to the book we were force fed, the U.S. is in the highest bracket of economic prosperity, or another way, quality of living/life. I'll dig it up and post the source later, if you'd like.
Edit: SO I guess it's relative to the whole world?
Edited by Michael Huber on 06 September 2008 at 2:02pm
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Craig Markley Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 3969
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| Posted: 06 September 2008 at 2:10pm | IP Logged | 5
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Here's the Rolling Stone article I mentioned up post
Without a Prayer
John McCain can't stand sucking up to the Christian right. Is this the end of the GOP's unholy alliance?
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/21896154/without_ a_prayer/print
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Michael Casselman Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 14 January 2006 Location: United States Posts: 1259
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| Posted: 06 September 2008 at 2:40pm | IP Logged | 6
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Don't let the fake unemployment figures fool you.
The numbers the BLS releases are worthless really. You'd have to get
the actual BLS reports and wade through them to see what I mean. I do
believe .pdfs of the reports on online and you can get them.
******************************************
There are liars, dams liars, and statisticians.
The numbers are only meant to be a snapshot, and the overall UI number isn't meant to be a meticulous breakdown by salaries/occupation, or whatever. The numbers also don't accurately reflect people who have been notified of a layoff but haven't been let go yet, transitioning service members, and people who are in school and can't/won't be em[ployed during that period.
There's also the lag-time between reports and when the data was compiled, which to a great extent is done utilizing reports by employers and taxation records... so that eliminates any note of UTT employment or illegals in the workforce.
As for the unemployment numbers being worse, well, if they were really going to 'cook the books', would it be in their interests to 'brag' about the unemployment numbers in El Centro, CA? What type of "inconvenient truth" is left?
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Mike O'Brien Byrne Robotics Member
Official JB Historian
Joined: 18 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 10927
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| Posted: 06 September 2008 at 3:12pm | IP Logged | 7
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Didn't Rolling Stone have an article about McCain's faith? I seem to remember that the article said that he only goes to church when neede- Like when he wants to be seen. He's religious but not a bible thumper.
Among the many reasons I enjoy McCain - I wouldn't vote for him - (well... especially in 2008. 2000 maybe. 2004 maybe) - but he's an ok guy. I've been consistant with that message in my posts here.
I do not feel the same about Pailin, for, among many other reasons, her spiritual beliefs, which I do not believe are fit for someone in a Presidential office.
I don't mind a leader having faith or spiritual beliefs. I think that can help people, and provide them comfort and spiritual centering. Having said that, some beliefs are unsettling, and while I don't begrudge people from having them, I don't want these people in any sort of position of power whereby their power is informed by these views.
In other words - I'm pretty sure McCain would out to win a war for America, not God.
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Mike O'Brien Byrne Robotics Member
Official JB Historian
Joined: 18 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 10927
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| Posted: 06 September 2008 at 3:24pm | IP Logged | 8
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Now, enough of that - another point I've been giving to the McCain camp is that they DO, in fact, have a hottie on the team - his daughter - (which one? I lose track - there are what, 7? The one that was profiled in GQ a few months ago who parties and likes Obama and is active in www.one.org and all that.) but in interest of full disclosure and to support the home team - here's the real hottie of the campaign - Maya Soetero-Ng - Obama's sister!
Gentlemen! Enjoy!

Now THAT's the kind of sugar Mike O'Brien likey.
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Dave Pruitt Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 6184
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| Posted: 06 September 2008 at 3:44pm | IP Logged | 9
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Dave Pruitt wrote:
| My response is, a couple of out of context quotes from Bush a few months after 9/11 say to me, he probably didn't know where he was. I doubt Bush would say that now | | |
[/quote="Matt"]Wow. Seven years after the fact you think he'd now be concerned about OBL. Seven years. I'm not entirely sure what I'm supposed to do with that information.[/quote]
It's an opinion, not really important information. I'd like to see the context, what the question was, was there anymore to this, etc. I really don't think he knew where OBL was at that time, and by saying I don't think he'd say that now, I mean, he, the CIA, the DOD, whoever, probably does have a better idea now, or at other times in the last seven years, ie, that OBL is somewhere in Pakistan, maybe even somewhere very specific, but there has to be more of a reason that we don't get him, now or then, than "we don't want him." Again, if these out of context quotes from Bush are all Mike based that comment on, I think it's a weak argument. Just the fact that we haven't got him yet isn't an effective argument that we don't want him either. We don't know all the facts. Obama and McCain both say they will make getting him a priority, and with the changing political picture in Pakistan, it will be interesting to see if they can back it up.
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Scott Richards Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 22 September 2005 Posts: 1258
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| Posted: 06 September 2008 at 4:24pm | IP Logged | 10
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If you know snopes at all, they only verify the claim that is made.
In this case, the claim was: Letter written by a resident of Wasilla, Alaska, offers viewpoint of Alaska governor Sarah Palin.
That's all they are verifying.
Snopes adds claims to their site based on questions people ask. This claim was brought to their attention and they verified that yes, someone from Wasilla wrote it. They do not verify the accuracy of the content.
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Al Cook Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 21 December 2004 Posts: 12735
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| Posted: 06 September 2008 at 4:46pm | IP Logged | 11
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O RLY? (Link to most recent example of Snopes doing exactly what Scott just cliamed they don't. The do indeed regularly check the accuracy of the content of emails even if they are only asked to verify the sender.)
Edited by Al Cook on 06 September 2008 at 5:02pm
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Michael Retour Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 27 May 2006 Posts: 932
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| Posted: 06 September 2008 at 4:53pm | IP Logged | 12
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Well, I think it wad on this forum that someone posted where the US stands on infant mortality, health care, and the like and we were not so prosperous in those categories.
To have rolling brownouts every summer isn't a sign of prosperity either nor is the trade deficit.
Sure, we have cheap labor providing us cheap goods but is that really economic strength? Maybe to someone who takes Econ 101 it is but peel the onion and realize it isn't really prosperous to not be able to be able to pay for what we consume.
To have presidential candidates not even talking about it is even worse.
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