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Christopher Alan Miller Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 26 October 2006 Location: United States Posts: 2787
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| Posted: 05 March 2008 at 1:35pm | IP Logged | 1
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(a vote count, as later reported, showed that Bush actually lost Florida in addition the popular vote)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Wrong.
The Pro-Gore New York Times and Washington Post among others have Bush winning recounts.
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Donald Miller Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 03 February 2005 Location: United States Posts: 3597
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| Posted: 05 March 2008 at 1:48pm | IP Logged | 2
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I don't think we will ever know the truth about Florida....circa 2000.
The fact is there was a lot of shady dealings going on with qualified voters being denied access as well as a whole slew of things that have never been answered.
I hate the whole push for Electronic Machines....these have been proven time and again to be frighteningly easy to manipulate and they leave no paper trail...who needs hanging chads when there is no physical vote to count?
Don
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Todd Douglas Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 14 July 2004 Posts: 4101
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| Posted: 05 March 2008 at 1:50pm | IP Logged | 3
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Vinny Valenti wrote:
| Presumably, but shouldn't be taken as fact. First Lady is not an elected position, so it should not be counted as far as experience goes. Her push for health care during that time is what started the level of resentment against her in the first place. |
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Aric Shapiro wrote:
| Other than getting face time with world leaders(or their wives) and collecting a ton of frequent flier miles, I don't see how first lady experiecne counts for much.... |
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Understood completely. Personally, I see it as, like I said, less a matter of "experience" and more of "familiarity" leading to a shorter period 'til you're really up to speed. Of course, saying you're "more familiar" than your opponent doesn't sound nearly as impressive as "more experienced."
Me? I wanna drag Access outta comic book limbo to give us an Amalgam Hilbama, as both have their plusses and minuses for me.
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Donald Miller Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 03 February 2005 Location: United States Posts: 3597
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| Posted: 05 March 2008 at 1:56pm | IP Logged | 4
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I am so making a T-Shirt that says Vote Hilbamo '08
Don
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Jeff Gillmer Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 30 August 2004 Location: United States Posts: 1920
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| Posted: 05 March 2008 at 2:05pm | IP Logged | 5
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From Erik Larson: Keeping an eye on the prize-- the next president could very well tip things in a big way when it comes to the Supreme Court. It already leans right and that's why they called the 2000 election in Bush's favor (a vote count, as later reported, showed that Bush actually lost Florida in addition the popular vote).
Link or something to back this up please. Everything I read about the Florida situation was that Bush won. Even if they did the Al Gore requested recounts Bush would have come out ahead.
And please, let's stop this nonsense about the Supreme Court calling the election for Bush. What the SC did was to stop the democrat controlled Florida Legislature from illegally changing it's own rules mid stream, not selecting the POTUS.
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Paul Greer Byrne Robotics Security

Joined: 18 August 2004 Posts: 14203
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| Posted: 05 March 2008 at 2:12pm | IP Logged | 6
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I distinctly recall, when he was in office, Bill Clinton detractors complaining that he let his wife in too close when making decisions about running the country. Now people are saying that being First Lady ment nothing when Bill was in office. It seems the Clinton haters like to have it both ways when complaining about her. I'm not saying she is the best candidate, I just find it amusing how many different ways she has been attacked over the years.
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Aric Shapiro Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4348
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| Posted: 05 March 2008 at 2:14pm | IP Logged | 7
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Paul, there is a HUGE differecne between having the president's ear and making the decisions yourself. i think Bill did try to have her play a very active roll, but after the health care proposal, she was relegated to a much more traditional first lady role.
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Vinny Valenti Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 17 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 8533
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| Posted: 05 March 2008 at 2:18pm | IP Logged | 8
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I don't see the discrepancy - one way or the other, Hillary should have had no say in US policy between the years of 1993 and 2000. Clinton may or may not have been influenced by her, but either way he shouldn't have been. If he was, it's still not something that she should be getting credit for, because it was something she shouldn't have been doing in the first place.
Edited by Vinny Valenti on 05 March 2008 at 2:18pm
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Christopher Alan Miller Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 26 October 2006 Location: United States Posts: 2787
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| Posted: 05 March 2008 at 2:22pm | IP Logged | 9
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It's probably not a good idea for democrats to be talking about the 2000 Florida vote considering how that state is being treated by them now.
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Vinny Valenti Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 17 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 8533
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| Posted: 05 March 2008 at 2:26pm | IP Logged | 10
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Not to mention that with things down to the wire again, Hillary may need to rely on superdelegates to win, which kinda goes against the notion of winning purely by vote count, something she supported in 2000 (she spoke of eliminating the Electoral College back then).
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Bob Neill Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 03 December 2007 Posts: 877
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| Posted: 05 March 2008 at 2:38pm | IP Logged | 11
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Keeping an eye on the prize-- the next president could very well tip things in a big way when it comes to the Supreme Court.
(snip...no point in resuscitating the '2000 Election in Florida' stuff again.)
A Clinton, Obama or McCain victory could lead to some radical changes in the rules as we've known them.
Emphasis on 'could'.
There's a tendency by some people to worry too much about how a newly-elected President(whom those people didn't vote for) will 'shake up' the Supreme Court. In theory(a flawed theory apparently held by too many), a new President can just appoint whoever he wants (who shares his party/ideological leanings). This came very close to happening in the '30s, when FDR wanted the rules changed by expanding the number of justics on the court, so that he could force more of his nominees through a Republican Congress which had rejected some of those nominees already.)
In practice, a President cannot fill a Supreme Court vacancy until it exists. The worry that 'such and such a law will be overturned if the 'other guy's candidate,Joe Fonebone, is elected instead of OUR guy, Roger Kaputnik,' is unwarranted. And besides, who honestly believes that EVERY nominee is from the same party as whoever's in the Oval Office?
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Paul Greer Byrne Robotics Security

Joined: 18 August 2004 Posts: 14203
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| Posted: 05 March 2008 at 2:40pm | IP Logged | 12
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But don't you think she was "regulated" to that role to deflect those criticisms? Can we honestly believe that her or other First Ladies don't have influence over their husbands policies? Hillary was just more blunt about it. Which makes people dislike her. Is there something in our legal system that says only special interest groups can tell politicians what to do and not their wives?
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