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Al Cook
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Posted: 26 March 2008 at 9:51am | IP Logged | 1  


 QUOTE:
The big difference here is that a new party has a very good chance to
become popular. The ruling Conservative party started out as the Reform
Party, which formed in the early 90's. They became stronger and finally
merged with an existing party who was on their last legs, the Progressive
Conservatives. They took the name Conservatives but really are the Reform
Party.


You left out the brief moment where they called themselves the
Conservative-Reform Alliance Party, Neil! (Which lasted until someone
pointed out what the acronym would spell.)

Edited by Al Cook on 26 March 2008 at 12:59pm
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Christopher Alan Miller
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Posted: 26 March 2008 at 11:33am | IP Logged | 2  

But, I'm still chuckling over another one of Hillary's excuses about the "Tuzla Sniper Incident".  She claimed that she misspoke because she was sleep deprived.  Is this the person I want answering the phone in the White House at 3am?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

It could've been worse. At least she didn't say that she threw herself on a grenade to save her platoon.

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Scott Richards
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Posted: 26 March 2008 at 11:36am | IP Logged | 3  

2.  He's not willing to stand by his family which calls his family values into question.  He, metaphorically, threw his grandmother under a bus to try to save his own behind by explaining that she was a racist.

Scott, you totally missed the point of that portion of his speech.  He used he Grandmother's racism as a means of saying that there are people all around us with controversial opinions that we don't abandon.  How is that not standing by his family?  Did he say that he never speaks to her anymore because of her racist opinions?  Quite the contrary.

He threw her under the bus by trying to use her for politcal gain at her expense.  You can bet she is getting a lot of flack for being "outed" as a racist nationally.  There is a big difference between your grandmother, who is not an influencial person spouting her racism to thousands of people each week and a Reverend who is supposed to be trusted spouting racism to thousands of people each week and influencing them with what he says.

You put up with more from family than friends and acquaintences because they are family and it would put a strain on the rest of the family not to.  Friends and acquaintences come and go, family is supposed to be forever.  That's the difference.

I would spend considerable time with a friend who was saying those things trying to show him the error of his ways.  But if he didn't, I'd have no choice but to give up and leave him.  It would be measured in months, not 20 years.

Reverend Wright is a black man with a very, very poor message and is a poor role model.  On the other hand, Bill Cosby, IMO, has a good message and should be an excellent role model for the youth (of any color) of today.



Edited by Scott Richards on 26 March 2008 at 11:47am
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Brian Hunt
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Posted: 26 March 2008 at 11:56am | IP Logged | 4  

The Mixed Race America blog writer brings up some good points about McCain referincing this quote issued during his 2000 campaign:

"I hate the gooks. And I will hate them as long as I live. You can quote me on that."

There are a lot of thought provoking things in the blog and the comments that follow.

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Bob Simko
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Posted: 26 March 2008 at 12:11pm | IP Logged | 5  

The biggest problem I see is that while everyone might agree that the message has an ugly/uncomfortable side, no one wants to ask the questions and understand what's causing that message to be given.

Which I think was a big point of Obama's speech.

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Knut Robert Knutsen
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Posted: 26 March 2008 at 1:38pm | IP Logged | 6  

"He threw her under the bus by trying to use her for politcal gain at her expense.  You can bet she is getting a lot of flack for being "outed" as a racist nationally."

He said he was "raised by" her. Suggesting at the very least that she took an active role in his life. Hardly the act of a die-hard racist. I saw his statements as being about how people are sceptical of those who are different, but also about how people will overcome those early fears and prejudices as they get to know people who are different.  Basically: the best cure for racial fears or prejudices is getting to know people of that other race and learning to understand their perspectives.

It's not a story about his grandmother being racist, it's a story about his grandmother overcoming old fears and prejudices in order to embrace him into her family.

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David Ferguson
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Posted: 26 March 2008 at 1:48pm | IP Logged | 7  

But, I'm still chuckling over another one of Hillary's excuses about the "Tuzla Sniper Incident". She claimed that she misspoke because she was sleep deprived. Is this the person I want answering the phone in the White House at 3am?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

It could've been worse. At least she didn't say that she threw herself on a grenade to save her platoon.

*******

Platoon II: Clinton in Bosnia

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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 26 March 2008 at 2:18pm | IP Logged | 8  

Alright - let's tackle some of these thoughts:

1.  Obama first stated that he had never heard Rev. Wright say any of that before.  That's on tape.  Then he changed his story and said that he did know, but didn't agree.  That is also on tape.  That makes him a liar and a typical politician.  He doesn't tell the truth up front and only tells the truth when the lie is exposed publicly.

I don't buy it - what he said originally was that he didn't hear that particular sermon, what he said in his speach was that, over the years, he's heard a lot of things that would cause the people who have reacted to react, but that it should end with a reaction - that should be the jumping off point to the discussion of what's wrong.

2.  He's not willing to stand by his family which calls his family values into question.  He, metaphorically, threw his grandmother under a bus to try to save his own behind by explaining that she was a racist.

Uh, no, he didn't say she was racist - that's like saying the pastor's sermon was "hate speach".  Wondering about your analysis...?  His feelings for his grandmother have been made clear over the years - detailed in his book "Dreams From My Father", where he says similar things about her as he said in his speach - that she was a wonderful loving grandmother, but, as much as some will deny it, there are underlying subconscious fears and feelings about blacks lurking in white people - even people like his grandmother, who would seem to be the least likely candidate.  The bottom line?  We're all human - people have feelings and reactions to things - denying them won't progress us anything - but facing them and dealing with them will.  Blowing off the pastor because his words offend are not dealing with the problem, for example.

3.  He then exposed his own bigotry and racist tendancies by calling his grandmother a typical white person.  So, to Obama, the typical white person is a bigot and a racist.  Since Rev. Wright is unquestionably a racist, does that make him a typical black person using Obama's own barometer of typical?  If any non-black politician had used the phrase "typical black person" in any context at all there would have been a frenzy calling for that person to drop out of the race/office.  It's a complete double standard.

Obama's grandmother is typical in that, as he's said many times, in print and in words, she's a great person filled with love, who raised him and made him into the person he is.  The fact that she's got flaws and is imperfect, as we all are, is what makes her "typical" - by definition.  Rev Wright is not a racist - a racism is a condition where one race is oppressed or suppressed by another race.  Last time I checked, the blacks were not holding any race down.  At worst, he's a bigot, but as I've noted upthread, his views are based in reaction to previous and current events, not some goal to oppress the white race.  Not sure where you're getting that from. And, yes, it IS a double standard.  I'm sorry to break this to you, but last time anyonce checked, this is still a white dominated society, and untill that changes, I have no problem with the underdog voicing their issues, no matter how uncomfortable it makes anyone.

4.  Obama, even though he knew what Rev. Wright preached, continued to let his family go to that church rather than switch to a different church that didn't preach a message of hate.  When I say church, I don't mean affiliation like switching from Baptist to Catholic.  I mean the physical church.  He could have gone to a different location of the same denomination that didn't preach hate.  That says, to me, he doesn't care about his children being exposed to hateful and negative material and possibly wants them to be exposed to it or is at the very least, indifferent about it.  That will influence the way those children see the world before they ever have a chance to form their own opinions and will help foster the continuation a divide between racial lines.  If he's willing to do that with his own family, then he's definitely going to be willing to do the same thing to the country.

I certainly think that the nation needs some eye opening on racial issues.  But based on everything Obama's done with his political career, do you seriously think this would be anywhere near the top of his priority list?  Is it possible that Obama went to chuch for spiritual guidence?  Does that even enter into the discussion?  Anytime any preacher quotes Leviticus (any part of it!) they're preaching "hate speach" as you call it.  So, why the pressure on this one preacher?

I think I can safely say that no black person alive today in the United States was ever a slave in the pre-Civil War days.  I can also safely say that no non-black person alive today in the United States ever owned a slave in the pre-Civil War days.  I have zero control over something that happened over 100 years ago.  If your great, great grandfather committed murder and killed my great, great, great grandmother 100 years ago, I would never, by any stretch of the imagination hold you responsible and feel entitled to anything special from you.  What happened can't in any way, shape or form be considered acceptable, but it's also in the past.  We can only learn from the past, not change it.

Yet again, missing the point - sure, slavery is over, but much of the black community still feels the effects of it, because people seemed to think that once the slaves were freed they could just shake hands and put it past them.  The fact that I to this day stand a better chance of getting a job, a loan, not getting stared at when I walk down the street at night, am not hassled by police, am not followed by security guards when I shop, live in an area that gets quick federal assisstance to disasters, all these things and more?  The lasting legacy of slavery.  When we get to a point where things are really equal, then I will rest, but until then, I can not turn my back on the problems.

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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 26 March 2008 at 3:02pm | IP Logged | 9  

ach!  I did this on a break at work - and had to do it fast, so it's rife with grammer errors - spelling, too!  I didn't want to edit it - but um, put on "doing this on a 15 min break" goggles when reading the above!

Sorry!

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Thom Price
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Posted: 26 March 2008 at 3:16pm | IP Logged | 10  

I largely agree with Ed Koch's piece on Obama and the Wright situation.


 QUOTE:
What is it that I and others expected Obama to do? A great leader with conscience and courage would have stood up and faced down anyone who engages in such conduct. I expect a President of the United States to have the strength of character to denounce and disown enemies of America - foreign and domestic -- and yes, even his friends and confidants when they get seriously out of line.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/obamas_unc onvincing_speech.html

Democrats should probably start eyeing potential candidates who can defeat McCain on 2012.

 

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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 26 March 2008 at 3:34pm | IP Logged | 11  

Uh... the pastor is not an enemy of America, though. 
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Thom Price
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Posted: 26 March 2008 at 5:14pm | IP Logged | 12  

Uh... the pastor is not an enemy of America, though. 

***

I don't read "enemies of America - foreign and domestic -- and yes, even his friends and confidants when they get seriously out of line" as a single category, but rather as two seperate groups: enemies, and out-of-line confidants.  I would certainly put the Pastor Wright into the latter, if not the former, category.

Even if we take it your way, I certainly don't think of someone bellowing "God damn [me]" as a friend.

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