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Steve Horton
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3574
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| Posted: 18 March 2008 at 1:21am | IP Logged | 1
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But the popular vote doesn't mean anything, just like it doesn't really mean anything in the general election. It's a delegate system. If Hillary can gain back a few percent and tie or even take the lead strictly population-wise, but still be 12% behind on pledged delegates, who should the superdelegates get behind? Should they go for popular vote, which doesn't have anything to do with anything, or go for how the system was intended to work, however flawed it is? I do believe that delegate and electoral college systems are inherently unfair and undemocratic, but I don't think going by popular vote in this case is right. That's not how the system works.
At any rate, even a big Clinton win in Pennsylvania will be balanced out by the other huge Obama-favored, but smaller remaining states. I don't see her making back that 2.6%, barring a miracle. She could have done it with a Florida re-vote. She can't now.
I also think she should give up before the convention itself. Otherwise, we'll have this huge, drawn-out superdelegate fight all convention long, and that's no good. Once the writing really is on the wall, I hope she has the sense to know when to let go.
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Thom Price
Byrne Robotics Member
L’Homme Diabolique
Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7592
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| Posted: 18 March 2008 at 2:08am | IP Logged | 2
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That's not how the system works.
***
But in this case the "system" is very much a NON-system; there are no rules or guidelines for how the super-delegates make their choice. What you think they should do or take into consideration may not be what they actually do. They can do "eenie-meanie-minee-moe" if they want. It's a ridiculous, capricious process -- but those are the rules that are in place. If Hillary can sway super-delegates to her -- for whatever reason: popular vote, personal preference, or a promise of ice cream after the convention -- then she has worked within the established rules. There is nothing sneaky or "low road" about using the rules exactly as they exist.
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Vinny Valenti
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8531
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| Posted: 18 March 2008 at 9:05am | IP Logged | 3
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I suspect these words will very soon bite Hillary squarely in the ass:
Hillary Calls For End To Electoral College
"I believe strongly that in a democracy, we should respect the will
of the people and to me, that means it's time to do away with the
Electoral College and move to the popular election of our president."
The first lady also said that because of the closeness of this year's presidential election, "I hope no one is ever in doubt again about whether their vote counts."
Edited by Vinny Valenti on 18 March 2008 at 9:06am
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Kevin Brown
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 May 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9126
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| Posted: 18 March 2008 at 11:13am | IP Logged | 4
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I'm not sure if anyone here listened to Obama's speech today, but here's an article with the text:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/18/us/politics/18text-obama.h tml?_r=1&adxnnl=1&pagewanted=all&adxnnlx=1205852 484-scoAqGufSfStzvq958tCIg&oref=slogin
If you get the chance though, find a site that re-shows the speech in its entirety. Just reading it doesn't have the same impact as listening to Obama. I truly believe this is the point in which he's turned things back in his direction and away from all the idiocy of the negative commentary of the past month. It's going to be interesting to see what the reactions are from the Clinton and McCain campaigns will be.
edited for spelling
Edited by Kevin Brown on 18 March 2008 at 11:13am
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Jason Fliegel
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 December 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 638
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| Posted: 18 March 2008 at 11:21am | IP Logged | 5
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Here is the full video of the speech:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWe7wTVbLUU
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Jason Fliegel
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 December 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 638
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| Posted: 18 March 2008 at 11:22am | IP Logged | 6
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Thom --
I don't think looking at popular vote totals is particularly useful as those totals lump caucus states in with election states. It's an apples-and-oranges comparison.
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Mike O'Brien
Byrne Robotics Member
Official JB Historian
Joined: 18 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10927
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| Posted: 18 March 2008 at 12:44pm | IP Logged | 7
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I agree Kevin! And, see, this is why I support Obama - it IS change - Hillary and the rest are all about the old way of filthy mud-slinging, and here's Obama with logic and intellect and common sense.
I love it. That's what I want in a President. Not the same old disgusting crap.
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Knut Robert Knutsen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2006
Posts: 7369
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| Posted: 18 March 2008 at 12:47pm | IP Logged | 8
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Just finished listening to the speech. I just kept thinking "Finally a politician who gets it." Damn, he's good.
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David Ferguson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 6782
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| Posted: 18 March 2008 at 1:01pm | IP Logged | 9
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Hillary has little to no chance of overtaking Obama is delegates, but it's been clear for some time now that delegates will not be the deciding factor in this competition. Super-delegates are going to be pivotal, and if Hillary has an edge or even is equal in the popular votes, that can be used to sway a lot of the Super-delegates to her side.
*******
If Hillary loses and the Super delegates "over-turn" the decision with their votes, it will just alienate Obama's support which will in turn will hand the General Election to McCain.
He must be loving the infighting. Its doing all his work for him.
(funny note: my spell check corrects McCain as moccasin and Obama as IBM. Dunno what that says)
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Geoff Gibson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5744
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| Posted: 18 March 2008 at 1:14pm | IP Logged | 10
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After reading Obama's speech I am not sure how anyone who shares his ideological beliefs (e.g. Democrats) can believe that Ms. Clinton is the better choice.
I'm a republican and have some SERIOUS ideological differences with Mr. Obama, specifically the role of government in our lives (I want less). I think McCain is good man. I read that speech and wanted to vote for Obama.
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Kevin Hagerman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 18349
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| Posted: 18 March 2008 at 2:28pm | IP Logged | 11
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Are we at least agreed that George W. Bush leaving office is one of the most desired events on the horizon?
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Keith Elder
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1973
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| Posted: 18 March 2008 at 2:57pm | IP Logged | 12
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I'd rather have four more years of Bush than Clinton.
In my defense, I'd rather have McCain or Obama than either of those two.
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Topic Closed)
