but to look up and see the Capitol building in the background as we walked shirtless through the streets...

This brings up something that is driving me crazy, in my neighborhood there are a bunch of super pale, slightly overweight old guys that have decided shirts are optional when working in their yard. These guys have bigger boobs then their wives and they all seem to have extra hairy bodies. Did I miss the memo that said this is OK???????

Tom I bet your shirtless guys looked a lot better then mine.

OK I got that out of my system, carry on.

You could call all of it civil unions (gay and straight) and leave the marriage stuff to the religions.

This is what I've been saying all along, Neil.  Let the zealots have their word -- their petty little word -- enjoy it.  I'm just sick of being seperate but not equal.

Jodi -- hate to break it to you, but though I often joke about doughy white straight boys, not all gays are gym-built Adonises, either.  Seems to me that the less in shape they are, the greater the chances they'll be wearing spandex. 

Sidenote: many men who are HIV-positive are on perscription steroids, built like brick-shithouses and in some ways, healthier than their negative counterparts.  Talk about coming a long way, baby.  Remember when being positive was nothing more than a death sentence?

MEANWHILE... over the weekend in politics:

Obama took the Cosby stance and criticized black fathers for their absence in the family.  "They need to be men... not boys!" 

While McCain says Obama is "...wrong.  The surge HAS been successful.  The evidence on the ground cannot be denied."

 Let the zealots have their word -- their petty little word -- enjoy it.  I'm just sick of being seperate but not equal.

I saw this post from Tom and felt compelled to defend the term "marriage."  Undoubtedly because I value my own marriage so deeply I am biased, but I don't believe you are thinking of this in the right way, although I can understand how your justifed frustrations have lead you to feel that way.  Marriage is a powerful word.  Words have meanings and the impact of those meanings are often found in our actions.  I favor gay marriage, because we know what marriage is -- it is the union of two people who truly and deeply care for one another.  Who are willing to share happiness, and all too frequently, sadness, with one another without asking or being told.  To make their partner's happiness and desires as important to them as their own.  When I introduce someone to my wife, they know, intrinisically, that she is the most important person in my world.  And they know we chose each other to be that person for the other.  If the idea of society is to create a group stronger than an individual, Marriage is that first most important commitment to that principle. So marriage is a pillar of a good society. 

But that is not religious or social conservative idea -- it is progressive human truth.  So when the question of marriage is raised as it pertains to gays I think two things should be considered: (1) the legal protections of marriage and (2) the societal understanding of marriage.  As Tom noted he and his partner want to be treated at law the same way straight couples are.  Obviously, anyone who has read my comments knows how I feel regarding this issue.  It is an issue of civil liberties and should be something we all champion.  Tom and his partner should have the same rights my wife and I have -- the same protections at law that we enjoy.  A civil union system for could work for this kind of equality.  Forming a civil union (whether gay or straight) would be akin to starting a busness partnership.  Partnership agreement papers would be written up and, depending on the state law, the couple could file their papers with the Secretary of State or some other approriate state entity.  The rights and iberties that are enjoyed by such a union would be equal no matter the sexual orientation of the partnerships.

Where the Civil Union idea fails, to my mind, is that it is at its heart a legal construction like a business partnership.  If I didn't know Tom was gay and he made a reference to his partner I would not know if it was someone he owned a business with or someone he had made a life committment with.  If he can marry I know what that means and it should be celebrated, regardless of sexual orientation.  Marriage, Tom, is not a petty word.  It is a beautiful word and a powerful word because of what it means.  The people who use it to treat you unfairly, who use it divide society rather than unify society, are petty.  And they don't get it.  But do not allow their pettiness make you settle for what you don't want or deserve.  Tom, based on what you've said about your partner, you deserve a marriage and all the joy, and yes pain, it can bring.  You deserve it so the world is never confused when you introduce your husbanded, so anyone who meets him knows: he is your world.

So I don't support Civil Unions.  I support Marriage, for gays and straights.   

Aw, geez, Geoff.  If we both weren't married...

Well, you know what I mean.

Listen, I just want a solution to the problem.  What I'm talking about are people who believe "marriage" is a term that invokes religion.  "Married in the eyes of the Lord" and other such nonsense.  Personally, I'm not a religious person.  It wouldn't make a bit of difference to me if I were married in a church or my backyard.  But there are people to whom the concept of marriage is a religious one.  And religion looks upon homosexuality as a sin (largely because thousands of years ago, when these ignoramuses thought up these religions, it was thought of as deviant behavior).  Nothing's going to change that.  No one's going to re-write Leviticus.  (Interesting to note that Leviticus outlines divorce as just as big a sin, but that's aside from the point.)

At this point, I don't think it's about semantics -- it's about rights. 

Baby steps.  Let's cross one hurdle at a time instead of trying to be Evel Knievel, and jump ALL the buses.

Tom, I could do a lot worse!

I think the religious component is an important one.  I was married in a church so there is the "sacramental" component to that.  But marriage is not uniquely a religous arrangement.  Indeed, different religious have different rules pertaining to marriage.  I don't support trying to force churches to recognize gay marriage.  They have the right to not acknowledge it.  As with most things I look at it from both a legalistic standpoint and (I hope) a fairness standpoint. 

But your statement "petty word" is interesting in what it reveals.  In trying to "protect the institution" by trying to define marriage and restrict marriage the closed minded fail to see how they are devaluing what marriage means!  It is similar to when people allow themselves to be labeled --and why I try not to label myself for if you define me do you seek to limit me? 

Baby steps.  Let's cross one hurdle at a time instead of trying to be Evel Knievel, and jump ALL the buses.

Fonzie could totally do that.

You're one tough cookie, my friend!

Worse, you're absolutely right.

Wandering around the DC streets at Pride yesterday just got me thinking -- and frankly, made me a little sad.  We've come so far, but it seems like we'll never stop fighting.  I'm just sick of fighting all the time.  Anger -- righteous or not -- takes a lot of energy to maintain.  

Fonzie could totally do that.

I didn't say SHARKS...

Wandering around the DC streets at Pride yesterday just got me thinking -- and frankly, made me a little sad.  We've come so far, but it seems like we'll never stop fighting.  I'm just sick of fighting all the time.  Anger -- righteous or not -- takes a lot of energy to maintain.  

And thats the pity of it to my mind.  As I said, I understand your rightous anger, but let me give you something that may re-ivorgate your fighting spirit, and soothe your anger.  There is not a gay person on the California or Massachusetts High Courts.  There is a generation of young people coming to the polls this year who have learned that anti-gay bigotry is as divisive, unfair and as evil as racism. There are a great many straight people who sympathize and support your call for being treated equally.  You are not alone. This fight is not only a "gay fight." So Solidarity, brother!