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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 15 June 2008 at 3:01pm | IP Logged | 1  

Yeah, Mark, dude - I don't want to speak for Geoff, but I think he and I are on the same page here - if you feel personally offended at the commerciailization of marriage - power to you.  I feel the same way about holidays, myself.  But I don't think Geoff or I are trying to offend you - nothing we're saying should be taken as personally offensive.  I mean, I think it's a little offensive to realize everything runs around money - maybe vulgar is a better term, but still...

Dude - no hard feelings.

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Marc Baptiste
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Posted: 15 June 2008 at 3:17pm | IP Logged | 2  

I like you both very much.  Your opinions don't change that.
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Tom French
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Posted: 15 June 2008 at 3:40pm | IP Logged | 3  

So... I just got home from DC Pride weekend festivities.  Whew!  I'm sweaty and sunburned (and more than a little drunk as I type this -- hooray for the beer tent!). 

When I was approached by the HRC (Human Rights Campaign) people, I asked, "Who's your candidate now?  Is it Obama yet?  Didn't some college intern announce your support for him last week -- you know, the day before Hillary dropped out?" 

There was a booth not far from them that encouraged us to still support Hillary -- don't let her campaign die!  The primary isn't over yet!  They were not pleased by me.  I approached THAT booth and said, "What has Hillary done for us?  She doesn't even feel 'comfortable' around gays (her words, not mine)"  They tried to bring up "don't ask/don't tell" and DOMA and I laughed out loud -- then moved on.  I didn't get a sticker.  Bummer!

I tell you, I don't know what to think.  Even in my short 44 years on this planet, we've come a long way, baby.   I know we've got a long road ahead of us, but to look up and see the Capitol building in the background as we walked shirtless through the streets... well, I felt okay.  How far have we come since Stonewall? 

It takes time.  And we've had THOUSANDS of years of opression and bigotry to deal with.  It'll happen -- eventually.

I'm just tired of being angry.

Time for a shower.  Thank you, guys, for your continued support and encouragement. 

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Kevin Hagerman
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Posted: 15 June 2008 at 6:54pm | IP Logged | 4  

Glad am I that I'm one of the "good ones", Tom :)
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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 15 June 2008 at 7:02pm | IP Logged | 5  

Tom - have you heard the song "My Mother Had a Brother" by George Michael?  It's got the same theme as what you're saying. 

The song is incredibly moving and powerful - it usually gets a tear out of me when I listen to it.

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Neil Lindholm
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Posted: 15 June 2008 at 7:29pm | IP Logged | 6  

I have never understood the importance of the gay marriage debate. A marriage is either a legal partnership between two people or a religious ceremony. Since most if not all religions hate homosexuals and think them sinful, why would anyone want a church wedding (or even belong to the religion for that matter). As for the financial aspect, just have it common law, or better still, get the government out of the marriage business altogether. You should be able to set whomever you wish as your legal beneficiary or power of attorney, and just get rid of all the tax breaks and stuff.

I do not know why the government is involved in marriage in the first place. You could call all of it civil unions (gay and straight) and leave the marriage stuff to the religions. Really, who cares nowadays if someone is married or not? If you are gay and want to form a spiritual union or whatever, just do it yourself.  Why do you need the government or some church to approve?

As a straight, single atheist, I just don't get the importance.
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Greg Reeves
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Posted: 15 June 2008 at 8:19pm | IP Logged | 7  

This is encouraging:

http://news.aol.com/elections/story/_a/historians-see-little -chance-for-mccain/20080615124509990001?icid=100214839x12041 72149x1200167371

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Marc Baptiste
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Posted: 15 June 2008 at 8:47pm | IP Logged | 8  

Neil,

What you propose in your second paragraph is exactly what the US Libertarian party states as its official position on the issue of marriage.
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Neil Lindholm
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Posted: 15 June 2008 at 8:51pm | IP Logged | 9  

Really? I didn't know that. To me it just seems common sense. 
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Al Cook
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Posted: 15 June 2008 at 8:53pm | IP Logged | 10  

And once again my theory that everyone, if left to arrange things their own
way, is secretly a libertarian proves true.
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Marc Baptiste
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Posted: 15 June 2008 at 8:54pm | IP Logged | 11  

After the two candidates my party forced me to choose between this year; I came VERY close to finally just ending the suspense and re-registering as a libertarian.
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Neil Lindholm
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Posted: 15 June 2008 at 8:54pm | IP Logged | 12  

And yet people still vote NDP.
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