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Steve Horton
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3574
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| Posted: 17 March 2008 at 11:55pm | IP Logged | 1
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I agree with Mike O. Hilary has zero chance. She really needs to step aside, and soon, for the good of the party. The longer she stays in, the worse the Dem's chances in November. The bickering, baiting and petty infighting has to stop now. The Republicans never got this bad, even when it was close.
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Mike O'Brien
Byrne Robotics Member
Official JB Historian
Joined: 18 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10927
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| Posted: 17 March 2008 at 11:57pm | IP Logged | 2
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Well, Steve brings up another good point - sure sure, it's not over till the fat lady sings, but... you know, I suspect the new phrase should be "It's not over till the bad lady destroys the Democratic party".
Hm... think I just coined a phrase!
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Neil Lindholm
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: China
Posts: 4943
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| Posted: 17 March 2008 at 11:58pm | IP Logged | 3
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I thought that the super-delegates were free to choose the leader as they saw fit, the best choice to lead the party. If they keep on trying to define their roles by placing all these rules on them (popular vote, ridings, etc) it defeats the reason for their existence.
Also, didn't Florida and Michigan already know that, since they broke the rules, they don't have a say in the actual nomination process? They don't get a say? Tough. They knew the rules.
The Florida and Michigan situation reminds me of the progressive parents who try to make kids sports non-competitive so, "everyone will be a winner". Or attempt to change the rules in favour of the geeky kid who can't play with the rest of the boys.
The Democrats are starting to look wishy-washy, the last thing they need before an election.
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Mike O'Brien
Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 18 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10927
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| Posted: 18 March 2008 at 12:08am | IP Logged | 4
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They are free to, Neil - and part of that is to convince them of who is the most fit, and part of that persausion is to tell them, you know, hey! The majority of Americans want this guy!
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Thom Price
Byrne Robotics Member
L’Homme Diabolique
Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7592
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| Posted: 18 March 2008 at 12:09am | IP Logged | 5
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Is it a common trait that Obama supporters are poor at math? :) I've never realized that 2.6% is an insurmountable lead. I must be using a different kind of calculator.
The entire purpose of the primaries is to give the voters of the party from each state a say in who the candidate is going to be; not for one candidate to get a slight lead and then try to guilt the other candidates into quitting "for the good of the party." If Hillary were down by a massive amount, I'd agree that she should quit -- but a less than 3% lead is hardly the reflection of an overwhelming mandate of the people.
+++
didn't Florida and Michigan already know that, since they broke the
rules, they don't have a say in the actual nomination process? They
don't get a say? Tough. They knew the rules
***
The problem is that the decision -- so far as I know -- was made by a very small handful of party leaders, yet it's the millions of people in those states who are being affected.
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Neil Lindholm
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Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: China
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| Posted: 18 March 2008 at 12:12am | IP Logged | 6
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These party leaders were selected to make the rules. If the state Dems don't like this, they can elect someone else.
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Thom Price
Byrne Robotics Member
L’Homme Diabolique
Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7592
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| Posted: 18 March 2008 at 12:16am | IP Logged | 7
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"Tough cookies" really isn't a good attitude for the Democratic party
to take towards the voters in Florida or Michigan. Millions of
disenfranchised and disillusioned voters are going a prime target by
Republican, and that's not going to be good for Obama or Clinton.
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Mike O'Brien
Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 18 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10927
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| Posted: 18 March 2008 at 12:40am | IP Logged | 8
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I don't think it's the slight lead that's causing Obama supporters to ask Hillary to drop out. It's that we don't like her!
Mwah ha ha ha!!
In other news... http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080318/ap_on_el_pr/obama_mtv - crap... maybe I can finally tell Thom that Obama did something wrong...
No, wait, I don't like drinking booze. I'm still with him.
And ladies and gentleman, it's 11:38 Pacific time as I type this... Mike O'Brien, Irishman, on St Patrick's Day, talking about the evils of drinking.
Now you've seen everything!
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Thom Price
Byrne Robotics Member
L’Homme Diabolique
Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7592
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| Posted: 18 March 2008 at 12:42am | IP Logged | 9
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the slight lead
***
Mike, please write this on a Post-It and stick it on your monitor. Otherwise, I'm just going to start responding to every post you make, in every thread, with "2.6%" ;)
Edited by Thom Price on 18 March 2008 at 12:44am
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Mike O'Brien
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| Posted: 18 March 2008 at 12:48am | IP Logged | 10
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Touche!
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Steve Horton
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3574
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| Posted: 18 March 2008 at 12:57am | IP Logged | 11
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Thom, you keep quoting 2.6% like it means anything. Obama has won twice as many states. He has a 139 delegate lead (including so-called "committed" superdelegates), 1618 to 1479, which is 8.6%, not 2.6%. Counting just the pledged delegates, the lead is 12%. As you well know, none of the remaining states are all-or-nothing. Obama will likely keep or increase this delegate lead going into the convention, especially since Florida is a no-go.
Do you really think the superdelegates will then turn around and chose Hillary? Why would they?
Edited by Steve Horton on 18 March 2008 at 12:58am
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Thom Price
Byrne Robotics Member
L’Homme Diabolique
Joined: 29 April 2004
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Posts: 7592
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| Posted: 18 March 2008 at 1:11am | IP Logged | 12
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I keep bringing out the 2.6% because certain overzealous Obama supporters like to maintain the illusion that he has some overwhelming support. It's not true. And for winning twice as many states, he still only has less than a 3% lead in the popular vote. That says something -- for both candidates.
The pledged delegates at this point are all but irrelevant; neither
candidate can get enough delegates to secure the nomination. It's
going to come down to the super-delegates. If Obama has more delegates, and Clinton has more or the same in the popular vote ... who knows how the super-delegates are going to vote, or what factors they will take into consideration. By they're very nature, they're unpredictable.
I'm not arguing that Hillary will win; Obama has a slight edge, no doubt. But you dismissing her as having "zero chance" is laughably overstated.
Edited by Thom Price on 18 March 2008 at 1:12am
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Topic Closed)
