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Mike O'Brien Byrne Robotics Member
Official JB Historian
Joined: 18 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 10927
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| Posted: 16 March 2008 at 11:23pm | IP Logged | 1
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Damn, Jason C - good call on the Fallwell commercial!
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Brian Floyd Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 07 July 2006 Location: United States Posts: 8825
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| Posted: 17 March 2008 at 8:11am | IP Logged | 2
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http://www.newsmax.com/kessler/Obama_hate_America_sermon/200 8/03/16/80870.html
Wright is even more nuts than I thought was possible, and even half of what's brought up in the article is true - and someone can provide actual proof that Obama was there - then he might as well drop out of the election.
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Stephen Robinson Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5833
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| Posted: 17 March 2008 at 9:37am | IP Logged | 3
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I agree with your points, Stephen, but I think I'm confused about her health-care plan. I tried looking it up, and I got a lot of mixed messages about what it is, but my understanding was that she was pushing a plan where you had to have coverage, like car insurance, and would be fined if you didn't - like car insurance. Which sounds insane, but made sense to me, considering how much money she takes in from the Insurance lobby - but I can't find anything concrete either way to support or deny that, and you're suggesting she's pushing some far out left wing thing, so... am I working with inncorrect information?
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SER: You're correct. However, I'd consider her proposal to be fairly extreme left. The extreme right position would be letting the uninsured hang and keeping the government out of it completely. The extreme left is to mandate insurance coverage -- basically socialize it.
I strongly disagree with her program for that reason, and it's another example of why I think Obama is a better candidate. His policy is remarkably similar to hers but without a mandate. Mostly because if you try to pass a universal health care bill with a mandate, you're doomed to failure. The mandate will most likely even ensure she doesn't get elected if she's the nominee. The Republicans would have a field day with it, as it will be basically spun as her raising taxes on the poor and removing choice.
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Jason Fliegel Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 19 December 2005 Location: United States Posts: 638
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| Posted: 17 March 2008 at 11:15am | IP Logged | 4
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Brian Floyd, you might want to check out this link:
http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/03/kristol _bungles_key_fact_in_an.php
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Kevin Brown Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 31 May 2005 Location: United States Posts: 9126
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| Posted: 17 March 2008 at 8:40pm | IP Logged | 5
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GREAT article about how Clinton will do anything she can to win:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/9086.html
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Thom Price Byrne Robotics Member
LHomme Diabolique
Joined: 29 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 7592
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| Posted: 17 March 2008 at 9:12pm | IP Logged | 6
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"Obama camp: HRC is taking the low road"
Good thing it's not from an biased source.
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Mike O'Brien Byrne Robotics Member
Official JB Historian
Joined: 18 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 10927
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| Posted: 17 March 2008 at 9:17pm | IP Logged | 7
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Florida decided today to not re-vote - which... I have mixed feelings about...
On one hand, I worry the Floridians are disenfranchized by this - though they knew going in that their delegates wouldn't be seated...
But then, if Florida didn't do a do-over in 2000, it's only fitting they don't do one now.
Anyway - Hillary can never catch up now. She's too far behind in popular votes and delegates...
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Thom Price Byrne Robotics Member
LHomme Diabolique
Joined: 29 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 7592
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| Posted: 17 March 2008 at 9:23pm | IP Logged | 8
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She's too far behind in popular votes
***
You and your crazy math, Mike.
2.6% is not very far behind, and it's a gulf that could easily be narrowed if not closed in Pennsylvania. Hillary has little to no chance of overtaking Obama is delegates, but it's been clear for some time now that delegates will not be the deciding factor in this competition. Super-delegates are going to be pivotal, and if Hillary has an edge or even is equal in the popular votes, that can be used to sway a lot of the Super-delegates to her side.
No matter how many times you want to declare this race over, the fat lady ain't sung yet.
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Thom Price Byrne Robotics Member
LHomme Diabolique
Joined: 29 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 7592
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| Posted: 17 March 2008 at 9:47pm | IP Logged | 9
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That article is what I've been expecting for some time now: renewed efforts by the Obama camp to force Super-delegates to follow the pattern set the the delegate wins per state. Funny that the Obama camp has accused Clinton of trying to change the rules mid-game, and yet that's precisely what they want to do now. The Super-delegates have the autonomy to vote however they see fit.
If you don't like the system, by all means work to change it. Personally I think the entire Democrat Primary system is byzantine and antiquated. But you don't change the rules in the middle of the process. Implying that Hillary is "cheating" or "taking the low road" by using the system that is in place is ridiculous.
But since the Obama camp feels that Super-delegates should follow the will of their constituents, I'm sure they're actively encouraging Senators Kennedy and Kerry to endorse Hillary. She did, after all, win their home state. No? Funny how people only dislike a system when it's not working in their favor.
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Mike O'Brien Byrne Robotics Member
Official JB Historian
Joined: 18 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 10927
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| Posted: 17 March 2008 at 11:20pm | IP Logged | 10
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Woah, Thom - that's some tricky logic you're using there - yes, it would be nice if the superdelegates voted the will of the people, but suggesting they do so doesn't mean that their nature is to vote otherwise, and it's cheating.
And that doesn't carry over to Kerry and Kennedy - the suggestion is that the super-delegates vote the will of the people, but they don't have to - Kerry and Kennedy, if not super-delegates, will have no say in who becomes president, other than what they do in the voting booth, like anyone else. Apples and oranges.
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Thom Price Byrne Robotics Member
LHomme Diabolique
Joined: 29 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 7592
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| Posted: 17 March 2008 at 11:27pm | IP Logged | 11
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it
would be nice if the superdelegates voted the will of the people
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Is the will of the people reflected in the popular vote, or a convoluted delegate system? If you ask "the people" I suspect they would say the former.
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Kerry and Kennedy, if not super-delegates, will have no say in who
becomes president, other than what they do in the voting booth, like
anyone else. Apples and oranges.
***
Apples and apples. Kennedy and Kerry are both superdelegates. That was my point.
Edited by Thom Price on 17 March 2008 at 11:33pm
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Mike O'Brien Byrne Robotics Member
Official JB Historian
Joined: 18 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 10927
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| Posted: 17 March 2008 at 11:42pm | IP Logged | 12
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D'oh! I didn't know that - but having said that, if the majority of Americans voted for Obama, I don't see why the superdelegates shouldn't do the same - even if it means differences state by state, as with Kerry and Kennedy. But then again, I'd agree that they might be obligated to their constituants to vote for Hillary.
And uh, that's pretty slippery there - taking a point about superdelegates and turning it around to a point about how we don't need delegates or electoral votes. Still - even if it were the will of the people... Obama is still ahead!
And any slight wins she makes in Penn, if any, will be overcome by the end of the race. He's predicted to get most of the remaining states.
Things could change... she could win one or two more states - especially if more of this race-baiting fear-mongering about the people near Obama who are mad about how blacks have been treated... but then again, logic and reason could prevail and he might win Penn! Never know what the future holds... I think Hillary should give it up, but you never know what will happen...
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