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Scott Richards Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2005 Posts: 1258
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Posted: 13 June 2008 at 8:07am | IP Logged | 1
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And I respectfully request that you stop replying to any of my posts in the future. Seems a fair trade.
Thanks. Much appreciated.
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Al Cook Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004 Posts: 12736
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Posted: 13 June 2008 at 8:08am | IP Logged | 2
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Declined.
Next?
(Wouldn't be a fair trade at all. Unless you feel somehow the questions that I
ask are discrediting you...)
Edited by Al Cook on 13 June 2008 at 8:10am
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Donald Miller Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 February 2005 Location: United States Posts: 3601
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Posted: 13 June 2008 at 8:08am | IP Logged | 3
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If Cuba were to stand up and say I would like your Military base removed from our land would you be okay with that?
Please like our military is going to do anything just because a few civilians(or all of them) don't like their practices.
The whole reason they are keeping them in Cuba is to hide their actions.
Don
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Scott Richards Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2005 Posts: 1258
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Posted: 13 June 2008 at 8:10am | IP Logged | 4
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Scott, I think it is a fair question. You have been asked by quite a few people how you know that the inmates are terrorists, although they have not had a trial. You have not answered yet.
I already did. I said if they were trying to kill our troops (the majority of the prisoners were captured while attacking us) that's proof. I also said if any of them were taken based on heresay, not in combat, then they should have the right to legal representation. I was pretty clear.
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Scott Richards Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2005 Posts: 1258
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Posted: 13 June 2008 at 8:12am | IP Logged | 5
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Declined.
Next?
Not a problem. When I don't reply to your questions in the future it's because you are on ignore. Problem solved.
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Al Cook Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004 Posts: 12736
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Posted: 13 June 2008 at 8:13am | IP Logged | 6
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I want to laugh at that, but I briefly did it to someone else on this board
once for just as specious reasons.
What's good for the goose, I guess.
Edited by Al Cook on 13 June 2008 at 8:13am
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Scott Richards Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2005 Posts: 1258
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Posted: 13 June 2008 at 8:14am | IP Logged | 7
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If Cuba were to stand up and say I would like your Military base removed from our land would you be okay with that?
Yes I would. I really don't see the need for a base in Cuba now. The cold war is over.
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Geoff Gibson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5741
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Posted: 13 June 2008 at 8:19am | IP Logged | 8
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I agree. Citizen or not, in this country.
To be clear-- arguably based on the courts rulings in 2004 and yesterday the protections apply where we have soverignty or jurisdiction, such as territories, embassies or bases. In Rasul v. Bush, the Supreme Court found that the degree of control exercised by the United States over GITMO sufficiently triggered the application of habeas corpus rights. Because the United States exercised "complete jurisdiction and control" over the base, the fact that ultimate sovereignty remained with Cuba was irrelevant. Further, the majority found that the right to habeas corpus is not dependent on citizenship status.
It was this holding that lead to the laws at issue and rejected by the Court in the Boumediene v. Bush case.
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Geoff Gibson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5741
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Posted: 13 June 2008 at 8:22am | IP Logged | 9
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If Cuba were to say they wanted all of the prisoners released I'd say release them.
For the reasons articulated in my last post, specifically issues surrounding jurisdiction, I think if Cuba were to do that we would be within our rights to tell Cuba to go pound sand.
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Neil Lindholm Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005 Location: China Posts: 4946
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Posted: 13 June 2008 at 8:25am | IP Logged | 10
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How is legal representation going to help when there is no trials? Only military tribunals. And as far as I know, there has not been a successful one since they started placing suspects there. So much for a speedy trial.
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Donald Miller Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 February 2005 Location: United States Posts: 3601
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Posted: 13 June 2008 at 8:28am | IP Logged | 11
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I said if they were trying to kill our troops (the majority of the prisoners were captured while attacking us) that's proof.
So which is it? Are they "suspected Terrorists" or "enemy Combatants" they are not interchangeable terms. and were they attacking us or defending their homes?
Don
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Geoff Gibson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5741
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Posted: 13 June 2008 at 8:33am | IP Logged | 12
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What I find most revealing is the recurring theme, again everywhere, that the people who are most stridently defending what's happening at Gitmo are those who don't want questions about it asked.
I don't think thats entirely the case, Al. I haven't read Boumediene v. Bush yet so I can't speak to the minority's opinion, but I think the question of what steps the government can take in the name of protecting the citizenry is a fair one. I can understand the reasons why some suspensions of civil liberties for non-citzen combatants could be constitutional. I think the question of how far these suspensions go (including how long) and whether there are adequate remedies at law to provide some relief from unlawful governmental conduct are fair constitutional questions. Its why earlier I articulated my "philosphical" view. If I had to frame a "legal" view I like to think it would conform with my "philosophical" view but I am not 100% sure it would. I think from a legal standpoint if I were a judge it would be more important that my legal view be consistant with the constitution and relevant good precendent, rather than what I want it to be.
Really its my long winded way of saying I can see how the Court could be split 5-4 on these issues.
Edited by Geoff Gibson on 13 June 2008 at 8:40am
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