Thom Price wrote: Since this seems to be aimed at me...

If the shoe fits, but you and Mike are not the only ones I've heard respond the way that you have in this thread.  It was really aimed at all Dems.

Thom, after reading the last few posts, I've realized what needs to be done.

We need to put aside our differences and team up and kick Matt Reed's ass.

Oh CRAP!  We're just proving Matt Reed's point!  Democrats need to stop fighting!

In all fairness, though, Matt - both Thom and I pretty clearly explained our justifications for how we intend to take our votes in the fall - don't think either were that rash or nutty.

I have a few things to say:

1. I think all the polls saying Obama has a better chance of beating McCain are bullshit. I fully expect the Republicans to swiftboat Obama (as Bill Mahr said on Real Time a few weeks ago, they'll try to make him look like a Muslim 5th Columnist - note, I rarely watch that show and only paid attention because Bob Costas was on), and I know a lot of people who will vote for Hillary if she gets the nomination - including some die-hard Republicans - but will vote for McCain if Obama gets it.

2. God damn "Pastor" Wright, and damn CNN for not covering it until their late night news shows (Anderson Cooper 360 was the first show to even get into it in depth at all, if I remember right - The Situation Room sure as hell didn't).

3. A few weeks ago the paper here had an editorial by a black journalist - I wish I could remember his name so I could look for it again online, but it was a syndicated column - who said that the Obama race sets a dangerous precident because a lot of blacks (I refuse to use African-Americans because I hate being PC) are voting for Obama simply because he is black, and that reporters have been afraid to challenge him because they're afraid they'd be seen as racists. I don't necessarily agree with the part about reporters, because I think its quite clear that certain news outlets (CNN, for instance) want Obama to win the nomination, but until SNL did a skit a few weeks ago making fun of how CNN was treating Obama, most journalists were going too easy on him. One other thing I didn't like in the article is that a lot of prominent blacks who openly supported Hillary were getting death threats - including a man who worked with Dr. King and was one of the Freedom Riders.

I think Obama WILL set a dangerous precident. If he gets elected and turns out to be either corrupt or incompetent - and rest assured the rose colored glasses people are wearing WILL come off eventually if he gets elected - then any black politician who runs for the job - or maybe even for VP - for the next 20-30 years will be a damn fool.....except possibly Colin Powell, if he ever decides to run.

Now they're saying a Florida re-vote may not happen. The Republicans control the state senate and won't sanction it if taxpayers have to foot the bill and its estimated it would cost between 10 and 12 million bucks. And the voting by mail option is a no go because they said it would be hard to verify the signatures (frankly, I think it should be a no go because ITS FLORIDA!).

I don't know what the solution is, but I don't think it would be fair to let Michigan re-vote but not Florida. The only solution I can think of would be to count the votes done at the illegal primary and punish both states by making them old their primaries dead last in the next election. (I've already said why Obama can go screw himself over Michigan)

George Bush seems incapable of being coherent for anything longer than a simple sentence. He had less experience than Obama and quite frankly seemed a lot les prepared overall. And the amount of dirt on him was spectacular. Yet he was given a pass because he seemed to inspire a lot of people. Even if you hold Obama to a standard twice as high as that of the current president he'll qualify on any point.

Yes, I think he seems to be a little style over substance, but Clinton and McCain seem to have the problem that they're too quick to pander to special interest groups. They're less style but what there is of substance cannot be counted on to remain the same after the election. But I certainly think all three of them are smart enough to do the job very well and adjust to their shortcomings, learn the things they don't yet know etc. The dividing point is on which one will be able to unite a divided America and bring this lumbering shipwreck around.

Yes, I think there are black people who'll vote for Obama because he's black. But there are also women who'll vote for Clinton because she's a woman and there are people who'll vote for McCain because he's not black and not a woman. They all have people in their home states that'll vote for them because they represent their state. A lot of people will find one point of similarity between themselves and a candidate and use that as a decider on whom to vote for. That is entirely up to them.

But if you look at it another way, Clinton doesn't bring aboard the black voters, but Obama brings aboard white voters. Bill Clinton got so many of the "black" votes when he was elected that it contributed to his nickname of being "the first Black president" (I know there were other reasons). But what in Slick Willy was a bonus is somehow a negative for Obama? Because he's actually Black?

I'm reminded of Chris Rock's speech in "Head of State" where he played an idealistic city councilman running for President. Because he was Black he couldn't stop, he couldn't quit, he couldn't concede. Because if he did, no Black man would get to run for a few more decades.

Obama is one of the most interesting presidential candidates to come into the race in the last few decades. He's made it further than any other of the inspiring grassroots candidates. He's more of a uniter with "crossover appeal" than any other black presidential candidate (with the possible exception of Colin Powell who regrettably didn't run).

Even if he was trailing Clinton by as much or much more than she is currently trailing him, he could not concede or accept the Vice Presidency as a consolation prize until he was damn sure he was utterly defeated. Obama can't quit the fight. And in a way I think Clinton has the same problem. I just wish that the fight could be fought without the dirt.

How does George Bush have less experience than Obama? He was a two term Governor of one of the largest states and governor is much closer to what a president does than senator. I'm not saying Bush has done well with that experience but 3 years in the senate and 8 in a state legislature can't compare. Iwould certainly say Obama has more experience than H. Clinton. Sleeping in the same building as the President of the US doesn't qualify you for the office

I find it hard to believe what's going on in Florida. It's like the democrats want to lose the election in november. If they don't allow some sort of re-vote they are handing the state to McCain.

This far out, I'm still not counting out surprises prior to or after the nominations are made official.  Even so, I can at least get a feel for what some people around me are thinking.

My Dad, a rock-ribbed conservative, isn't so sure he even wants to be voting this year.  To him, McCain is no more a Democrat than either Clinton or Obama.  I'm not too fond of either of the Democratic contenders remaining at this point, mostly because of the political philosophy behind prominent party members, but McCain would get my vote if no viable third party candidates are available and he doesn't prove to be as bad as some keep saying he is.

Some kids I overheard at work a couple of nights ago (I called them "kids" because I'm almost a 40-year old man myself, and these were tweens) more or less endorse Clinton.  Definitely not the image one thinks of when looking at mass media reports these days.

If it were a choice between Clinton and Obama, I'd take the latter.  It may be true that he's got a few questionable friends (IMO, a pastor who keeps saying "God Damn America" in one of his sermons is not following in the footsteps of the late Dr King, no matter the truth of what happened in our pasts), but I'd rather have an unabashed Socialist-Democrat who isn't hiding what he would prefer as policy than someone who "triangulates" things so as to mask their true agenda.  If the people want big government, then I'll be in the minority two doesn't.  That's the way the United States works.

For better or worse, the choice will have to be made this November.

Brian Floyd:
"God damn "Pastor" Wright, and damn CNN for not covering it until their late night news shows (Anderson Cooper 360 was the first show to even get into it in depth at all, if I remember right - The Situation Room sure as hell didn't)."

Actually, the story had been on the internet for a while.  Early last week, it broke nationally on ABC news in a story by Brian Ross.  Fox News picked up on it and has been running it almost non stop.  Finally CNN had to notice it.  I have no idea if MSNBC has even mentioned it yet.  CBS is probably to busy having someone create some fake memos about McCain to be bothered with a negative Obama story (I kid...I kid!).

I bet that church is now reconsidering the idea of having DVDs of sermons available for sale.

"How does George Bush have less experience than Obama? He was a two term Governor of one of the largest states and governor is much closer to what a president does than senator."

Which applies to most states, but Texas is known as a state wherein the powers and role of the governor have been very limited in comparison with most other states.  He also only served 6 years as governor. A term and a half. Compared to Obamas 12 years in public office (If we discount their year on the campaign trail its 11 to 5).

Obama discusses his Rezko connection in depth:    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-0316edit1mar1 6,0,2616801.story

Good article!  If only Hillary would come so clean....

In other news, on a different track - I like Obama's use of U2's City of Blinding Lights at his campaign song - it's such a great song and it really fits him and his campaign, but I think I have another good one for him  - Us by Regina Spektor - here's the lyrics:

They made a statue of us
And put it on a mountain top
Now tourists come and stare at us
Blow bubbles with their gum
Take photographs, have fun
Have fun

They'll name a city after us
And later say it's all our fault
Then they'll give us a talking to
Then they'll give us a talking to
'Cause they've got years of experience

We're living in a
Den of thieves
Rummaging for answers in the pages
We're living in a
Den of thieves
And it's contagious
And it's contagio-ah-us
And it's contagious
And it's contagio-ah-us

We wear our scarves just like a noose
But not 'cause we want eternal sleep
And though our parts are slightly used
New ones are slave labor you can keep

We're living in a
Den of thieves
Rummaging for answers in the pages
We're living in a
Den of thieves
And it's contagious
And it's contagio-ah-us
And it's contagious
And it's contagio-ah-us

They made a statue of us
They made a statue of us
The tourists come and stare at us
The sculptor's mama sends regards
They made a statue of us
They made a statue of us
Our noses have begun to rust

We're living in a
Den of thieves
Rummaging for answers in the pages
Were living in a
Den of thieves
And it's contagious

And here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pKujuTgtL0

Plus, finally...  the leader of the free world and our next President, making plans!

For the life of me, I can't imagine leaving the party if my candidate wasn't nominated.  For the love of god, Obama is a young man who has had very little time in public office!  It's his first time running and yet he's challenging the candidate who mere months ago was all but the de facto nomination!  If he doesn't get the nomination, it'll be by the slimmest of margins and something his supporters can build upon for the next race.  It's not something to pack up and leave the party over.

**********

SER: I agree -- however, if I think Obama loses the nomination for corrupt reasons -- e.g. Clinton running a scorched-earth, Karl-Rove style campaign with a dash of race baiting, I will not vote for her.

I would probably vote for McCain over Clinton anyway -- and was considering this prior to Obama's success in Iowa. I can't take the whole Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton thing. I also think that while I might agree with some of Clinton's policies over McCain's (especially health care), I think Clinton's tactics are such that these plans will fail miserably -- much like health care did in '93 -- and will have a terrible trickle down effect for the Democrats.