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Joel Tesch
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Joined: 19 May 2006
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Posted: 11 June 2008 at 9:40am | IP Logged | 1  

"I  would love to get into George H.W. Bush's mind and see what he objectively thinks of his son's administration."

GHWB: "...not prudent!"

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Christopher Alan Miller
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Posted: 11 June 2008 at 9:44am | IP Logged | 2  

If only he hadn't called off a War before it was won.

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Geoff Gibson
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Posted: 11 June 2008 at 9:54am | IP Logged | 3  

If only he hadn't called off a War before it was won.

I hear you Christopher but I disagree.  If I am not mistaken (and I may very well be it been awhile) the authorization for the Gulf War was to remove Iraqi occupation forces from Kuwait -- not to remove Sadam from power.  He ended the conflict when the objectives were met. 

* Edited to add: I also seem to remember that Congress only authorized the "liberation" of Kuwiat and not an invasion of Iraq.  So I think 41 was following the Congressional authorization.



Edited by Geoff Gibson on 11 June 2008 at 10:05am
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Christopher Alan Miller
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Posted: 11 June 2008 at 10:09am | IP Logged | 4  

The resolution was to condemn the invasion and called for the withdraw of Iraqi troops. A second resolution authorized any means necessary to implement the first resolution. It said nothing about stopping at the Iraqi border, in fact most of the American forces attacked directly into Iraq bypassing Kuwait.

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Geoff Gibson
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Posted: 11 June 2008 at 10:17am | IP Logged | 5  

It said nothing about stopping at the Iraqi border, in fact most of the American forces attacked directly into Iraq bypassing Kuwait.

To the extent such action happened whilst working toward the objective -- the withdrawl of Iraqi Troops from Kuwait -- it is consistent with the intent and spirit of the resolutions.  Once Kuwait is liberated and Iraqi troops have withdrawn I do not believe that the authorization justifies regime change.  Certainly it does not meet the spirt of the authorization or the basis on which the war was sold.  I think Bush the First did what he was authorized to do.  If he had gone further I think he would have been outside his mandate. 

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Jodi Moisan
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Posted: 11 June 2008 at 10:25am | IP Logged | 6  

Jodi, email me. I have something you want

"You, you got what I need......"  answering this question with the song "Just a friend in my head"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8CECzP9SEE

What's your email Brian?

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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 11 June 2008 at 10:35am | IP Logged | 7  

The war wasn't about Bush's feeling for his dad - the war was a pre-arranged action to get Americans into the middle east to establish a perminanat base there, as was spelled out in the Project for a New American Century, a document created in the late 1990s, by a group of conservatives including Dick Cheney, Richard Pearle, "Scooter" Libby, Paul Wolfowitz, etc. 

They had a website, but the last time I checked, it went down, but information about it is found all over the internet.

The document more details a need to go, and how to go, more than a why to go; the popular thesis was for America's interests to control the oil flow, which was due to explode in demand as China and Russia became larger consumers of crude oil.  On one hand. this seems to be working in that our partners (Bush is an oil man) are making record profits, at the expense of our citizenry.  However, on the other hand, China is digging their own oil, so we dropped the ball on that one.

Let me be clear - there are no human emotions motivating this war - this was financially motivated.

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Kevin Hagerman
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Posted: 11 June 2008 at 10:35am | IP Logged | 8  

If he had gone further I think he would have been outside his mandate. 

----------------------

Not to mention our ability.  See the current situation for examples.

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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 11 June 2008 at 10:37am | IP Logged | 9  

What's your email Brian?

---

Under his posts, there is a link that says 'email'. You can also get that link
by clicking on 'profile'.
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Christopher Alan Miller
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Posted: 11 June 2008 at 10:51am | IP Logged | 10  

Not to mention our ability.  See the current situation for examples.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

We had about 3 times the troops in 1991 as we used in 2003.

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Jodi Moisan
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Posted: 11 June 2008 at 10:57am | IP Logged | 11  

Thanks Michael.

About 151,000 Iraqis died from violence in the three years after the United States invaded.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20080109/iraqi-deat h-toll/

"Iraq Body Count" puts it at 92,004

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

 

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Keith Elder
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Posted: 11 June 2008 at 11:20am | IP Logged | 12  

Wow, I'm absolutely in the minority here...

Unless the situation gets a whole lot worse in Iraq, I support staying in it for at least several more years at near current troop levels, and maybe decades at reduced levels.  I think that's the only option we have that has a shot at salvaging something halfway good out of this.

And by 'good', I mean a relatively stable and free democratized, Western-allied, nation in the Middle East, while avoiding a civil war.  There's no guarantee we'll get there, but I think it's the only decent path we have out of this.

When comparing deaths under Saddam and post-Saddam, you can't just make it a strict numerical calculation.  All the lives in Iraq existed at the whim of a tyrant; and a free country is worth fighting and dying for.  There's a very real chance it will all be in vain, but if we bale out, we're ensuring it will be.

To get back to presidential politics, this was my only real problem with Ron Paul's platform.  He wanted to cut out immediately.
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