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Bob Neill
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Posted: 15 March 2008 at 12:40am | IP Logged | 1  

Mike O'Brien:

In all fairness, I see Obama as more of a mix between Superman and God

Fictional? Mysterious? Both?

He's human. Deal with it.

 

 

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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 15 March 2008 at 2:53am | IP Logged | 2  

Bob - you understood that that was a joke, right?  I was playing with Thom's idea that Obama's followers see him as more than human...

Sarcasm is so lost on internet posting boards...

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Matt Reed
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Posted: 15 March 2008 at 10:31am | IP Logged | 3  

Being a Dem myself (not a hippie, but pretty liberal...SHOCKER!!!), I really do hate hearing all this talk from both sides..."If Obama doesn't get the nomination, I'm leaving the party!"  "If Hillary doesn't get the nomination, I'm voting for McCain!"  That's the kind of talk I'm thinking the Republicans are loving and it's a lose/lose for Dems all the way around.  Once again, we aren't a united party.  Once again, we struggle with very public fighting between factions.  And once again we as a party can't get our own house in order much to the detriment of convincing those on the fence we are better than the opposition.

For the life of me, I can't imagine leaving the party if my candidate wasn't nominated.  For the love of god, Obama is a young man who has had very little time in public office!  It's his first time running and yet he's challenging the candidate who mere months ago was all but the de facto nomination!  If he doesn't get the nomination, it'll be by the slimmest of margins and something his supporters can build upon for the next race.  It's not something to pack up and leave the party over.

I also can't for the life of me imagine voting Republican if my candidate wasn't nominated.  McCain?  I liked him eight years ago and believe you can't deny him the respect he deserves based on his Vietnam experience, but he's come back to the right too much for me.  He's changed his opinions on where he stands enough that they don't jibe with mine.  I simply couldn't vote McCain if I was a Clinton supporter and she didn't get the nomination.

In the end, although I'm glad that each Dem candidate offers something different to the party and its members, I wish the two factions wouldn't be so melodramatic about taking their toys and going home or to the other side if they don't win the nomination.  I wish they didn't give the Republicans easy ammo.  I wish that they could present different ways of governing without creating such a schism in the party.  In short, I really wish for a day when the Democrats, my party of choice, are unified so that we don't appear so weak, so wishy washy, so divisive.  As it is, with all this talk about "no more of the same", I can't help but laugh at the two campaigns and ask "what's different?"

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Bob Simko
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Posted: 15 March 2008 at 11:06am | IP Logged | 4  

Hippie...
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 15 March 2008 at 11:09am | IP Logged | 5  

HA!
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Knut Robert Knutsen
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Posted: 15 March 2008 at 11:39am | IP Logged | 6  

I can't understand the "If not my candidate, then McCain" argument either. Maybe it's because pragmatic voting is more a way of life over here, with party voting instead of personal elections. (The party ranks its candidates in plural districts and the seats get distributed according to mathematical models with extra seats distributed according to the number of "votes without seats" so that a party big enough to warrant a seat percentage wise but too small to get a district seat still gets in - once it clears the 5 percent mark.)

We have a saying here: "The Best is the enemy of the Good". It just means that in the absence of a perfect candidate, you vote for the one who gets you closest to your goal. 
It worked for Social Democrats here in the past, helped secure changes in voting rules that previously favored the large conservative parties (The Rightists and the Leftists or Liberals (meaning party in favour of minimal government). The Liberal (original meaning) party favored a voting reform from one-man to plural constituencies that they felt would help better reflect the range of political voices in the country. The voting reform eventually helped marginalize the Liberal party, but it was a great boon to the Social Democrats in those early years. Which is why the Social Democrats worked for the Liberal party to win in that crucial election instead of trying to run against them in one-man constituencies and splitting the vote.
A lot of people have the attitude that if you can't get a really good candidate, there's no point in voting, but then you run the risk of someone far worse getting in. For an american example, I think voting for Nader when it gets you Bush instead of Gore is an example of this. Not that I'm saying I can't understand people voting for Nader instead of Gore, just saying that from a pragmatic perspective it can be a bad choice.

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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 15 March 2008 at 11:48am | IP Logged | 7  

er, well, Matt, it helps if you realize that Hillary is basically a Republican.  Then my decision is less the work of a madman, and more the twisted genius of a lunatic.
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 15 March 2008 at 12:16pm | IP Logged | 8  

Even if that's the case, Mike, McCain and Hillary are miles apart on specific issues that I find important.  That's why I couldn't vote for McCain.
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Horace Austin
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Posted: 15 March 2008 at 12:29pm | IP Logged | 9  

Would Clinton and McCain appoint the same type of judges to the federal
judiciary?


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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 15 March 2008 at 12:30pm | IP Logged | 10  

Well, it's a good thing neither of us are voting for McCain then, eh?

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Thom Price
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Posted: 15 March 2008 at 12:43pm | IP Logged | 11  

I also can't for the life of me imagine voting Republican if my candidate wasn't nominated. 

***

Since this seems to be aimed at me, I'll respond to it directly.  My intention is not "Screw you Obama, I'm voting for McCain out of spite!"  Clinton is my candidate of choice; if she is out of the running, I will look at the remaining options and chose the one I feel is best based on a range of criteria. I do not regard being a registered Democrat as requiring me to only vote for a Democrat.  I've never voted Republican in a Presidential race because there has never been a Republican who has appealed to me.  Even with the unapealing Democrat candidates in the last few races, they were still better choices for me than their Republican counterparts. 

I don't necessarily feel that way about McCain; there is much about the man I find admirable.  There is little about Obama I find impressive or appealing; he simply does not "speak" to me. Throw in some other considerations, and I am disinclined to vote for him. If I weigh Obama versus McCain, right now I lean towards McCain. 

I've already conceded that McCain may not be as moderate as I recall; if so, I'm going to have a rather apathetic voting experience in November.  One thing is certain, I won't be voting for Obama just because he has "Democrat" next to his name.

+++

In short, I really wish for a day when the Democrats, my party of choice, are unified so that we don't appear so weak, so wishy washy, so divisive.

***

I think the Democratic primaries puts the foolishness of the two-party system into very sharp focus; expecting an entire nation to fall easily into two camps is ludicrous.  The Republicans, with their more direct and simplistic primary process, give a better illusion of unity since a frontrunner can more easily be determined.

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Matt Reed
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Posted: 15 March 2008 at 12:56pm | IP Logged | 12  

Let us also not dismiss a rather weak Republican field this time 'round.  I see McCain as more of a stopgap nomination.  He's well known and is well respected to be sure, but there was no one else half as compelling.  That's not a nod to the Republicans for fielding a strong candidate so much as it is recognizing how weak their national candidate poll is. 
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