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Ron Sluyter
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Posted: 12 March 2008 at 6:09pm | IP Logged | 1  

Five minutes of research to find that.

****

I am glad you added that, now I don't have to waste time debating a condescending douchebag

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Thom Price
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Posted: 12 March 2008 at 6:27pm | IP Logged | 2  

Uh, but the black vote is, what, 12%  He's winning by a lot more than that.

***

Wow, that's some crazy math.  

In the popular vote, Obama leads 49.5% to 46.9% -- without Florida and Michigan.  Considerably less than 12%, there.  In the delegate count without Super Delegates, he leads 1403 vs 1240 (13%); with the Super Delegates, 1614 vs 1487 (8%).  Are any of those numbers "a lot more" than 12%?  

Now theoretically subtract 90% of that 12% -- are Obama's numbers still as decisive against Clinton?  Not so much.  And I still maintain that an unknown white candidate with all of Obama's stengths and weaknesses would not have siphoned off close to 90% of the African-American vote from Clinton.

All numbers taken from http://www.realclearpolitics.com

I'm curious why Obama's supporters, who consistently point to his honesty as a chief virtue, are so eager to overstate his success, pushing the truth to the breaking point?
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Jason Czeskleba
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Posted: 12 March 2008 at 6:32pm | IP Logged | 3  

 Thom Price wrote:
Samantha Power resigned on her own accord, exactly as Geraldine Ferraro has done. 


My mistake, I hadn't yet seen the news today that Ferraro has left her position with the Clinton campaign.


 QUOTE:
So you honestly believe that a white male Democrat running against Hillary Clinton would have siphoned off up to 90% of the African-American votes?


No, but I believe a white male Democrat with the charisma, charm and speaking ability of Obama would have been able to attract enough votes from all types of voters to have secured the nomination by now.  At the very least, I think race is a wash for Obama.  There are people who vote for him solely because he's black, but there's also people who will not vote for him solely because he's black, either because of racism or because they fear his race makes him "unelectable." 


Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 12 March 2008 at 8:04pm
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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 12 March 2008 at 7:43pm | IP Logged | 4  

Well, Thom, it's what Malcolm X called "tricky white man logic".

I kid!  I kid!!

I guess my math was off on that one - it was a gut-reaction post - but even by your math, if you remove the black voters, it's not like he's suddenly way behind - he's not running on a black vote - he's running on a "he's the best guy for the job" vote.

So, my appologies about the math.  And yes, an unknown white candidate may or may not have that kind of run against Clinton - but despite his make-up, Barack was not unknown - I've been pulling for him to be President since I saw his address at the 2004 DNC, and the people of Ill have been for even longer than that.  I think he's past the fresh young turk stage, and into the full-on major candidate stage - even before this campaign.

By the way - that's part of the joy of supporting him - over my lifetime - I've been eligible to vote since 1992, when I turned 18 - I've seen all these great potential rising stars in the Democratic party, who either didn't run for President (Cuomo, Richards) or didn't get past the primaries (Dean) and it's just been discouraging - holding my nose to vote every election - I didn't support Clinton or Gore or Kerry - but they were what I had to deal with, so I did it.

Obama - when I heard that speach at the DNC - I remember the moment - I was driving my car through SF's northbeach, listening to the speach on KGO 810 - I had to pull the car over - I couldn't believe what I was hearing - the guy on the radio was perfectly summing up what I wanted to hear out of a Democrat - I was floored - I went right out and began researching the guy, and after reading his book (at the time - his second book came out later) I thought - this guy needs to be President!  But based on my past false hopes, I figured it would be like all the other candidates that I pinned my hopes on who either didn't run or who screamed themselves out of the race - but then, By God, despite it all, he did run! 

I'm an Obama man to the bitter end. 

By the way - here's a funny note that was sent out by the Obama campaign today:

When we won Iowa, the Clinton campaign said it's not the number of states you win, it's "a contest for delegates."

When we won a significant lead in delegates, they said it's really about which states you win.

When we won South Carolina, they discounted the votes of African-Americans.

When we won predominantly white, rural states like Idaho, Utah, and Nebraska, they said those didn't count because they won't be competitive in the general election.

When we won in Washington State, Wisconsin, and Missouri -- general election battlegrounds where polls show Barack is a stronger candidate against John McCain -- the Clinton campaign attacked those voters as "latte-sipping" elitists.

And now that we've won more than twice as many states, the Clinton spin is that only certain states really count.

But the facts are clear.

For all their attempts to discount, distract, and distort, we have won more delegates, more states, and more votes.

Meanwhile, more than half of the votes that Senator Clinton has won so far have come from just five states. And in four of these five states, polls show that Barack would be a stronger general election candidate against McCain than Clinton.

I agree!

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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 12 March 2008 at 7:51pm | IP Logged | 5  

By the way - for the record - here's Barack Obama doing what U2 did at LiveAid - here's the moment he became THE candidate for many of us:

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/convention2004/bara ckobama2004dnc.htm

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William McCormick
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Posted: 12 March 2008 at 8:59pm | IP Logged | 6  

Five minutes of research to find that.

****

I am glad you added that, now I don't have to waste time debating a condescending douchebag

**********

Better than a complete moron who won't spend five minutes to get his facts straight before posting something that's an outright falsehood.

After years of watching anyone liberal get dragged through the mud by the right wing smear machine forgive me for being a litle testy.

 

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Kevin Brown
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Posted: 12 March 2008 at 9:17pm | IP Logged | 7  

After years of watching anyone liberal get dragged through the mud by the right wing smear machine forgive me for being a litle testy.

*********************

You are NOT alone in that sentiment.

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Paul Kimball
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Posted: 12 March 2008 at 9:24pm | IP Logged | 8  

William,
What is about Mccain that puts you off?
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Didier Yvon Paul Fayolle
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Posted: 12 March 2008 at 10:17pm | IP Logged | 9  

Nice speech. Really nice. So smooth "éloquence".
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Kevin Hagerman
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Posted: 12 March 2008 at 11:37pm | IP Logged | 10  

There was only one true liberal in this election, Dennis Kucinich.  All the other so-called liberals are really just Not Conservative Enough.  Including McCain.  Heh.

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Didier Yvon Paul Fayolle
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Posted: 13 March 2008 at 12:03am | IP Logged | 11  

Kevin, do you have to type so loud?
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Kevin Hagerman
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Posted: 13 March 2008 at 12:41am | IP Logged | 12  

I don't follow?

 

 

Do you mean the excess capitalization?  Think of Rumpole's term for his wife, She Who Must Be Obeyed.



Edited by Kevin Hagerman on 13 March 2008 at 12:43am
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