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Al Cook
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Posts: 12735
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| Posted: 10 May 2008 at 6:41am | IP Logged | 1
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QUOTE:
it is also true that just having the law on the books tends to
damper dissent |
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No, it's not. Those that feel that way really have no idea what the actual
law on the books is.
It's very basic: In Canada, you can say/broadcast/publish anything you
want. If you say to a group that they should rise up and try to kill another
group, you are at risk of charges and or imprisonment. (You can still say
it, and take the chance, as the likelihood of enforcement (as history in
this nation has shown) is next to nil. Unless, presumably, they actually
take you up on the idea.)
As to our human rights tribunals, for our American readers, they are
analogous to the ACLU, although the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal
(CHRT) is a government body, charged with upholding the Canadian
Human Rights Act. It is not, however, a true legal body - though similar
in style to a legal tribunal, CHRT is less formal, and either party can
challenge any decision in a federal court of law.
The Canadian Human Rights Act (CHRA) is extensive and prohibits
discrimination against anyone on basis of religion, race, sex, orientation
and so forth. It is widely used as a model for developing similar
acts/codes in countries adopting democracy and freedom, and is a
standard by which the UN and other international bodies measure human
rights violations in oppressive, non-democratic nations.
Tribunals under the CHRT are intended to address cases of
discrimination. The CHRT has the power levy fines against violators.
Decisions on occasion are controversial, and decisions on occasion are
overturned.
Steve: I have never heard of it being used to "quiet people (usually
religious people) who speak out against homosexual marriage in public
(letters to the editor for example)." That's fascinating. Please provide a
link to that case - I want to make sure I know the details of that one.
I have heard of cases to the contrary, where the CHRT ruled in favour of
ministers refusing to perform gay marriages on the basis that doing so is
contrary to their beliefs, but that was just hearsay from within the
religious community.
Where Steve and I differ in opinion is in the Ezra Levant case. Steve says:
QUOTE:
Ezra Levant got a lot of mileage out of mocking the tribunal and
making the whole thing look insane but the fact that it actually happened
in my country pissed me off beyond belief |
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Where Steve got pissed off, I swelled with pride.
I think it's an amazing honour to live in a country where freedom is so
highly regarded that there is a body dedicated to ensuring that no group
or even individual is unfairly discriminated against, and where we
have the complete freedom to mock and expose that same body when
their attempts to do so are misguided and ill-conceived.
Ezra Levant ultimately lost no freedoms in his case, and in the end, he
helped ensure that the watchdog continues to be watched itself.
Fantastic. That's the way things should be, and I'm very proud to be
a part of it.
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Al Cook
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Posts: 12735
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| Posted: 10 May 2008 at 6:43am | IP Logged | 2
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So, how about them Democratic primaries, eh?
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Bill Wiist
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1555
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| Posted: 10 May 2008 at 8:38am | IP Logged | 3
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Hey, guys - get your Obama lapel pin NOW:
http://www.suitablyflip.com/suitably_flip/2008/05/obama-camp aign.html
:)
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David Ferguson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 6782
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| Posted: 10 May 2008 at 8:47am | IP Logged | 4
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Am I right in saying you guys don't get paid sick leave?
Wow.
Irish people get 3 consecutive days without proof from a doctor. You need a doctor's cert after that and maybe one per week you're out. It's less stress for the employee (there's no I CAN'T BE SICK!!). The employer pays up to a certain point, then the Department of Social and Family Affairs do.
On the government controlling certain things. I think the government should be in charge of areas of national interest like health. I don't want the health service in Ireland run like a business but like a service (with some provisos thrown in).
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Scott Richards
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2005
Posts: 1258
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| Posted: 10 May 2008 at 10:27am | IP Logged | 5
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Where I am, I get 4 weeks vacation, 6 sick/personal days, 8 paid holidays and 2 floating holidays (extra personal days). I know it's not as good as countries that have 6-8 weeks of vacation a year, but for a US company, it's really good.
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Brian Hunt
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5180
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| Posted: 10 May 2008 at 11:32am | IP Logged | 6
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And those benefits are the exception Scott. As our economy has become more service based, more and more companies are only offering 1 to 2 weeks vacation, 6 sick/personal days, and only 3 paid holidays.
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David Ferguson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 6782
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| Posted: 10 May 2008 at 12:18pm | IP Logged | 7
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2 weeks is no where near enough. I get 25 days annual leave (I started on 22 and the company adds a day per year of service up to 25 max) and 10 Bank Holidays (a mixture of Irish and US). I'd like to add that this is a US company.
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John Bodin
Byrne Robotics Member
Purveyor of Rare Items
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3911
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| Posted: 10 May 2008 at 12:52pm | IP Logged | 8
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David Ferguson wrote:
Am I right in saying you guys don't get paid sick leave?
Wow.
Irish people get 3 consecutive days without proof from a doctor.
You need a doctor's cert after that and maybe one per week you're out.
It's less stress for the employee (there's no I CAN'T BE SICK!!). |
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MOST people don't get sick leave -- I'm salaried and I work for a great company, so I'm more fortunate and have more flexibility than most U.S. workers, so my situation is a lot closer to yours than most others here in the U.S., but even so the work must get done, and even at companies such as the one where I work, there definitely is that "I CAN'T BE SICK" mentality.
Contrary to the nasty "lazy American worker" stereotype, in terms of hours they put in and time off received, U.S. workers are some of the hardest workers in the world.
EDITED TO ADD: Just noticed you're in Ireland, David -- are you in the pharma industry, by chance? Pharmaceuticals are big in Ireland right now, which is why I ask.
Edited by John Bodin on 10 May 2008 at 12:53pm
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Albert Matthews
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 August 2006
Posts: 2204
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| Posted: 10 May 2008 at 12:57pm | IP Logged | 9
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Just saw Obama last night at an outdoor rally at U of Oregon. My spot was pretty sweet actually...against a railing...so I could stand on it (when not being told to get down!) and had a pretty good view of his spiel. And overall I agree w/most of it, but still just don't find him nearly as charismatic as others do. (By contrast, Bill Clinton was there a few years ago and rocked the place!)
P.S. I decided to go in an army jacket and shades to see if my "Travis Bickle persona" would prompt the Secret Service to hassle me at the metal detectors. Alas, no one did. (Maybe I should have gone all the way and replaced the low-rent baseball cap w/a a mohawk, but I just wasn't willing to take it quite that far!)
[edited 4 dismal grammar]
Edited by Albert Matthews on 10 May 2008 at 12:59pm
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David Ferguson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 6782
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| Posted: 10 May 2008 at 1:26pm | IP Logged | 10
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Just noticed you're in Ireland, David -- are you in the pharma industry, by chance? Pharmaceuticals are big in Ireland right now, which is why I ask
*****
No but I could see why you'd come to that conclusion. I'm in the financial industry
Contrary to the nasty "lazy American worker" stereotype, in terms of hours they put in and time off received, U.S. workers are some of the hardest workers in the world.
*****
Which is why they don't deserve to be exploited. People talk about bad employment conditions in the third world. I know its not as bad but they should look at the first world too.
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Mike O'Brien
Byrne Robotics Member
Official JB Historian
Joined: 18 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10927
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| Posted: 10 May 2008 at 2:01pm | IP Logged | 11
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Which is why they don't deserve to be exploited. People talk about bad employment conditions in the third world. I know its not as bad but they should look at the first world too.
Suddenly I want David Ferguson for President...
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Marc Baptiste
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3633
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| Posted: 10 May 2008 at 2:24pm | IP Logged | 12
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Can't we all just love freedom and be Libertarians? I know, I know, I'm a registered, yellow-dog Democrat... sigh.
(P.S., Mike is a closeted bisexual, communist down to his pink underwear)
Edited by Marc Baptiste on 10 May 2008 at 2:29pm
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