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Topic: Title Change: Spider-Man Thread (Now with New Costume) (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Darren De Vouge
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Posted: 17 January 2006 at 3:39pm | IP Logged | 1  

Howard Mackie wrote:

I strongly suggest
that if you don't like the book... DO NOT BUY IT! If
sales fall... changes WILL be made.

*************************
DONE and DONE!
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Mike Bunge
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Posted: 17 January 2006 at 3:57pm | IP Logged | 2  

"Regardless of what people think of Stracynski as a writer or The Other as a story the thing had to make it through an editorial process presumably. Obviously there is some belief at Marvel that this is a good way to go with the character. I can't see why beyond some gimmicky sales stunt. But do creative teams at comics companies do things specifically to piss off a segment of the audience. I find it hard to picture writers sitting around saying "This will get them steamed." So to quote a line from another much maligned (mini)series, Identity Crisis:

 "Who benefits?""

 

Well, "Sins of the Past" and the Clone-saga all had to make it through an editorial process, too.

Mike

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Steve Horton
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Posted: 17 January 2006 at 4:19pm | IP Logged | 3  

Much less so with Sins of the Past. I remember a JMS interview where he was praising working with Marvel because the editors weren't changing a single word of his scripts.
This is all stuff a hardliner like Jim Shooter would have said "No" to.
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Wayne Osborne
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Posted: 17 January 2006 at 4:23pm | IP Logged | 4  

"I wouldn't say I could do better than JMS.  He's a very talented guy,
after all.  But I damn sure would have known not to do "Sins of the
Past"."

Well, I am saying it and I guess it's "money where your mouth is"
time. Here's what I came up with while waiting for my daughter to
get a Subway sandwich after I picked her up from school.

There's been one too many reality shifts in the Marvel Universe and
the "web of reality" (see even using the Spider-Totem crap) is
unravelling. All hell is breaking loose. Villians and heroes from the
past and future are fighting in the streets of New York. The
Avengers have their hands full, too full to live up to the promise of
protecting Peter's loved ones. Too many villians know his secret
identity and the Sinister Six are gonna get him and everyone he's
ever cared about. As the shit continues to hit the fan in a major way,
Peter must choose between serving himself or the greater good by
helping the Spider-God fight his enemies and repair the Web. He
tries to do both, but can't and he suffers the worst loss of his career
when MJ and Aunt May die. But reality taketh away and reality giveth
- Uncle Ben has returned. He tries to help Peter realize that he did
the right thing. He reminds him again that with great power comes
great responsibility. Shattered with grief Peter and Doctor Strange
(and whoever else you want to toss in there) win the final battle
against the enemy of the Spider-God and it's time to restring the
Web of Reality. Peter demands his right as the avatar to have a say in
the weaving and finds that it is his job to repair it all. He's paid the
ultimate price and he wants his due. Yes, he has great power and
great responsibility...........but right now it's too great for him to
bear. He's had enough. And after this last task, he renounces the
Spider-God and wants to be released from his service. He doesn't
want this life and he doesn't want to remember it. The Spider
agrees. Pete takes a deep breath and looks at Uncle Ben. "You know
what I have to do, right?" Ben nods and puts his hand on Peter's
shoulder. "It's okay. Just remember how much I love you."

Peter looks at all the different threads of reality, takes them in his
hands, and begins to weave.

In the morning Pete wakes up. Aunt May is fixing wheat cakes. He
looks at his closet and sees just a tiny bit of his costume sticking out
from where he hid it last night. He moves his web-shooters to make
more room for it and puts it away. May yells up, "Hurry, Peter, or
you're going miss the bus."

And there you go. You can use the reset button to put you at any
point to start over again. But that gets rid of the Spider-totem,
Gwen's bastard Goblin children, and a whole lot of other stuff all
across the MU if you want to take it that far. It's not all that hard
really.

WO
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Mike Bunge
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Posted: 17 January 2006 at 4:38pm | IP Logged | 5  

"Much less so with Sins of the Past. I remember a JMS interview where he was praising working with Marvel because the editors weren't changing a single word of his scripts.
This is all stuff a hardliner like Jim Shooter would have said "No" to."

 

But as I believe was previously discussed on this thread, JMS apparently wanted Peter to be the father of Gwen's twins and M****l vetoed that idea.  How you can recognize that being a horrible idea and let the even worse Gwen/Norman get through, though, does boggle the mind.

Mike 

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Brian Kirk
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Posted: 17 January 2006 at 4:46pm | IP Logged | 6  

Wayne, man...you're a GENIUS!!  Give this man a contract!  (REALLY)!!
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Lance Hill
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Posted: 17 January 2006 at 4:49pm | IP Logged | 7  

I like Wayne's idea for rebooting Spider-Man.
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Jason Schulman
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Posted: 17 January 2006 at 5:11pm | IP Logged | 8  

My idea for fixing the Spider-books is less drastic than Wayne's. It's basically a rehash of what Peter David did in The Incredible Hulk last year, when we found out that Nightmare (the Doctor Strange villain, the lord of nightmares) has been screwing with the Hulk's mind for the last few (real) years, meaning that most of what ocurred during Bruce Jones's Hulk run probably didn't "really" happen. Well, Nightmare and Spidey had a dream-world run-in several years ago (which involved the Hulk, no less).

So, we find out that Nightmare wants revenge on Spidey, too. Hence all the Spider-Totem nonsense and organic webshooters and "Sins Past" and "The Other" -- hell, maybe even Aunt May's death from Amazing Spider-Man #400 -- it's all in Peter's mind, which keeps drifting in and out of the real world, unable to tell what's real and what isn't. So we have a Spider-Man vs. Nightmare story in which Peter finds out that none of these dumb stories were "real."

This wouldn't undo everything in Spider-land from the last few years -- Peter would still have joined the Avengers, Aunt May would still know Peter is Spider-Man, etc. -- solely because they've been referenced in non-Spider-Man titles. But the stupidest bits would be retconned out.

And if the next potential Spider-writer is reading this -- steal my idea. Please. I'm begging you. I won't ask for credit.
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David Danion
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Posted: 17 January 2006 at 5:18pm | IP Logged | 9  

The problem with that is the same as with "The Other" and the spider-totem thing. Spider-Man dosen't work well in sci-fi/mystical settings. Like Batman, he works better in "crime on the street" type stories. Not time travel or reality warpping stuff.

And besides, once JMS leaves, the next writer will find a way to ignore all this mystical crap anyway.

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Thomas Mets
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Posted: 17 January 2006 at 5:23pm | IP Logged | 10  

Wayne's idea is an interestign reboot, but a little un-necessary, and it would beg some difficult questions, such as why did Peter choose to wipe out Gwen's children. A simpler solution to the Gwen's children mess is to just forget about it, and stop referring to it in future stories. The Spider-totem mess could be resolved with the revelation that Spider-Man's not the Spider-totem, a new villain is.



I'm not so sure that low sales will guarantee a 'superstar' writer/artist losing a title. Let's use Iron Man as an example - let's say that the five issues of Warren Ellis Iron Man masterpiece theater have sold 50k each (I have no idea if this is accurate, and am not inclined to look it up) - so 250k copies over the course of 15 months, or 16,667 copies per month. Spider-Girl sells more copies per month, also has digest/trade sales, and it's getting shit-canned.

Guess Defalco and company should have shipped a few issues late, to 'create buzz'.
********************************************************** *****************************

Spider-Girl's big sales are in the digest, but with a hundred issues in the can (or soon to be in the can), and 5-6 issues a digest, Marvel currently has enough material for 13 more digests (after Volume 5.) If the digests are released quarterly, that would last more than three years. This excludes all the  MC2 spinoffs, such as Darkdevil, The Buzz, Wild Thing, Fantastic 5, and Last Hero Standing, which should last Marvel another year. Lord knows if there will be the same level of interest in new Spider-Girl material by Tom Defalco at the end of that time.

In August 2005, Marvel sold 48,400 copies of Iron Man #4, and 18,150 copies of Spider-Girl #121, so your guesses are fairly accurate, if a little bit conservative on your end. However, I'm fairly certain it costs less to produce 50.000 copies of Iron Man #4, than it does 16,667 copies each of Spider-Girl #89-91, when you take into account the salaries of all involved (paying for 1 issue's work as opposed to 3 issue's work), bulk rates for printing/ shipping, and the like.  It'll be interesting to see how well the Extremis trade does in sales, and it's worth noting that the creators are leaving at the end of the next issue, and Marvel released the Inevitable mini series, to make up for the lack of a monthly Iron Man book.

I had a point somewhere, but I've lost it.



But as I believe was previously discussed on this thread, JMS apparently wanted Peter to be the father of Gwen's twins and M****l vetoed that idea.  How you can recognize that being a horrible idea and let the even worse Gwen/Norman get through, though, does boggle the mind.
********************************************************** ***
It's more in character for Norman Osborn to have bastard children than Peter Parker.

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Rob Hewitt
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Posted: 17 January 2006 at 5:31pm | IP Logged | 11  

It's more in character for Norman Osborn to have bastard children than Peter Parker

***

Bastard is not a favored word anymore.

It's also more newsworthy, and not necessarily in a good way, for Spider-man to have kids.

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Wayne Osborne
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Posted: 17 January 2006 at 5:31pm | IP Logged | 12  

"Wayne's idea is an interestign reboot, but a little un-necessary, and
it would beg some difficult questions, such as why did Peter choose
to wipe out Gwen's children. A simpler solution to the Gwen's
children mess is to just forget about it, and stop referring to it in
future stories. The Spider-totem mess could be resolved with the
revelation that Spider-Man's not the Spider-totem, a new villain is"

First question - because his best girl had sex with his worst enemy.
And wound up with crazy, messed up kids to boot.

Second question - renouncing the Spider-God and hitting reset gets
rid of the biowebshooters and the spider-stingers (my god, don't we
have enough Wolverine in the MU?) and any other baggage you want.

It's not a perfect idea, but it's not bad for sitting in a parking lot for
10 minutes and trying to pull something resembling the character I
knew and loved out of the current mess he's in.

WO
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