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Jason Fulton
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 3938
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| Posted: 12 January 2006 at 4:22pm | IP Logged | 1
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Needs more bling.
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 12 January 2006 at 4:24pm | IP Logged | 2
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Krunk teeth.
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
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| Posted: 12 January 2006 at 5:19pm | IP Logged | 3
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Nothing about being a hot shot, a weapon
designer, a billionaire, or a playboy means you're
ipso facto a jerk.
Yeah, but that's a hard combination to pull off in a
likeable character. He's got no money problems;
he's good-looking enough to pick up any woman he
wants pretty much at will and discards all of them
pretty quickly, too; he's his own boss and doesn't
really have to answer to anyone unless he feels like
it; and he spent the early years of his career figuring
out the best ways to blow up random Vietnamese
citizens.
In the years that I've been reading about the
character, he's turned on his teammates multiple
times to varying degrees (lying to them, murdering
them, and betraying them come to mind); he
invented a flying wheelchair and a cure for paralysis
and didn't make any real efforts to make them
available to the general public, too, and that's just off
the top of my head.
Sure, there've been great Iron Man stories over the
years, but I don't think I ever really liked him in either
identity all that much.
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Jason Fulton
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 3938
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| Posted: 12 January 2006 at 5:29pm | IP Logged | 4
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That doesn't sound like the Tony Stark I've read - but I've only really read the character in JB-penned appearances, so that might be why.
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Eric Lund
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2074
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| Posted: 12 January 2006 at 5:37pm | IP Logged | 5
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Could that costume be anymore stupid?
Joe Quesada: When you want something down like total and complete shit.
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Joe Boster
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3160
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| Posted: 12 January 2006 at 5:40pm | IP Logged | 6
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And some of that stuff make him more heroic as well. Yeah Tony Stark screws up. Often. But he always tries his best to make it up to people. Heck even in the horrible "the Crossing" He paid for his sins with his life and died a Hero (Cue the Darth Vader Redemption argument)
So for me he comes off, mostly, as the guy trying to do the right thing for the right reason.
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14857
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| Posted: 12 January 2006 at 5:45pm | IP Logged | 7
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I thought all of Tony Stark's actions in "The Crossing" were acknowledged as out of character and dismissed as mental control by Immortus anyway.
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David Whiteley
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 2748
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| Posted: 12 January 2006 at 6:01pm | IP Logged | 8
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Andrew said: "Yeah, but that's a hard combination to pull off in a
likeable character. He's got no money problems;
he's good-looking enough to pick up any woman he
wants pretty much at will and discards all of them
pretty quickly, too; he's his own boss and doesn't
really have to answer to anyone unless he feels like
it; and he spent the early years of his career figuring
out the best ways to blow up random Vietnamese
citizens."
Hmm, tweak that a little and you'd be describing James Bond, and he's been successfully portrayed as a likeable and charismatic hero for the majority of his movies. I don't think the fact that he is a smart, successful business man should keep a writer from making him heroic and likeable.
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Joe Boster
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3160
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| Posted: 12 January 2006 at 6:16pm | IP Logged | 9
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Good Point David. Although Andrew talked about Stark's Mutitions work as "figuring out the best way to blow up random vietnam people". Warren Ellis wanted to pick up on the whole racked with guilt for his years in munitions in his Iron Man book. I have many close friends who work on blowing up stuff better so our guys get killed less. Tomahawk, Sidewinder, Harpoon, etc. So maybe I'm missing something.
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
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| Posted: 12 January 2006 at 6:58pm | IP Logged | 10
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James Bond didn't have to carry a monthly book,
however, and he never joined up with John Steed,
Emma Peel and other British adventurers on an
ongoing basis, either.
Sure, I'm oversimplifying the character a bit, but all
the stuff at the core of the character made it
impossible for him to be one of my favorites.
It's not that there isn't room for unlikeable characters
in comics, either. I'd never want to hang out with the
Human Torch or the Sub-Mariner, and I'd forgive Ben
Grimm in a second if he ever hauled off and decked
Johnny, but that doesn't mean I'd prefer to see
mature, level-headed versions of those guys in the
comics I read.
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 35939
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| Posted: 12 January 2006 at 7:04pm | IP Logged | 11
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Right. Like the way he was originally portrayed up through Micheline's run (what he did when he was drinking was a symptom, not the man) and in several other runs of the character, notably the JB/JRjr "Armor Wars" run. That Marvel has, yet again, screwed with this character doesn't mean the character himself is unlikeable. They've just strayed far from his roots.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133317
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| Posted: 12 January 2006 at 7:11pm | IP Logged | 12
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Millionaire arms dealer is horribly injured in freak accident. Uses technology to save his life -- and also to become a superhero, when he could just as easily have stayed home.Yeah -- my definition of "jerk" all right! As to the alcoholism -- as I have noted before, this was a totally artificial contrivance. The writers decided to make Tony an alcoholic, with absolutely no prior suggestion of any such problems. Quite the contrary, in fact. So first they had to shoehorn in all these "reasons" for him to take up drinking -- "reasons" which might fit mere mortals, but not someone like Tony Stark. Much applauded, much awarded story -- imho, total piece of crap that violated the character completely.
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Topic Closed)
