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Eric Kleefeld
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4422
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| Posted: 25 October 2005 at 7:58pm | IP Logged | 1
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The story's good, but instead of great art elevating the story, we've got
average art dragging the story down a few notches.
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Not just average art, but inconsistent art. How many classic stories of
American comics kept switching art teams?
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Eric Lund
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2074
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| Posted: 25 October 2005 at 8:42pm | IP Logged | 2
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The initial art team of Bob Hall and John Beaty was really good. I was really disappointed that they stopped after 3 issues. I pretty much dropped the series after that...
Mini-series should be the total package... 1 writer, 1 penciller, 1 inker....
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Jason Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2473
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| Posted: 25 October 2005 at 11:21pm | IP Logged | 3
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That was my problem with Squadron Supreme too. Just couldn't deal with the art. Reminds me of all those great 1970s Steve Englehart Avengers stories with art I just can't stand (usually the inker's fault, I think).
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John McMahon
Byrne Robotics Member
Membership Revoked
Joined: 21 September 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 581
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| Posted: 26 October 2005 at 3:08am | IP Logged | 4
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Eric Kleefeld wrote:
| How many classic stories of
American comics kept switching art teams? |
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Had to keep im coming out on time!
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Thanos Kollias
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 June 2004
Location: Greece
Posts: 5009
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| Posted: 26 October 2005 at 4:45am | IP Logged | 5
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About the art in Squadron:
Bob Hall, Paul Ryan, John Buscema.
The "inconsistent" artist seems to be either at the same level or improving. Can't understand how this is such a bad thing.
And, yes, John, they had to keep it coming out on time then because they didn't have a magic orb at that time to see into the future (our present) and find out the industry would be more interested in TPB and collections than monthly books. They had to, you know, make sure their real-time customers would get the product they were promised to get. They had such strange notions those guys back then....
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Eric Lund
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2074
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| Posted: 26 October 2005 at 6:10am | IP Logged | 6
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Inconsistant art teams was always bad for books back then... that was one of the reasons that JB's X-Men run was so successful...it was consistant... You knew you were getting CLaremont/Byrne and Austin...the same with Iron Man with JR/JR and Layton or Miller and Janson on Daredevil... Everyone I knew was disappointed that the art was inconsistant...understandable on a regular monthly but a mini-series??? No way...There is no excuse on a mini-series to have thee different art teams...that is just sloppy and it definitely effected the sales on that book. I think that is why it is not in the same class as the Watchmen which was the total package. To turn it around..if the Watchmen was done by Sal Buscema and Ron Wilson and Keith Pollard...all very good competant artists it would not be considered the ground breaking achievement it is today....Gibbons unified vision made that book. IF the Squadron Supreme had an artist of that calibur it would be right up there....It didn't so it isn't
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Thanos Kollias
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 June 2004
Location: Greece
Posts: 5009
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| Posted: 26 October 2005 at 6:47am | IP Logged | 7
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I am not so sure. Squadron Supreme had its share of ads in the Marvel books at the time, but nothing extravaganza, like Watchmen. Watchmen was supposed to be a mega event back then, supposed to be a hit. It was.... designed to be great. Watchmen, Dark Knight and Man Of Steel were treated as mega events.
Squadron Supreme was just another series. Nevermind it was BEFORE Watchmen and no one cared about it enough, possibly because of the featured characters. It was advertised as much as the Eternals LS and I don't think anyone even remembers that anymore. It wasn't supposed to be groundbreaking like Watchmen was. It was found out much later.
Marvel's limited series had different art teams a lot at the time. Secret Wars had Bob Layton issues, Magic had John and Sal Buscema and Ron Frenz as artists. The 4 Savage Land Marvel Fanfare issues, that were supposedly the same story had Michael Golden, Dave Cockrum and Paul Smith.
I understand what you are saying, Eric, and tell you the truth I prefer the same art team on a series (if I like it, of course!), but I don't think anyone would mind too much if Squadron Supreme's artistic duties were shared by John Byrne, Paul Smith and Mike Zeck at that time. Or if Brian Bolland had stepped in in one or two Watchmen issues. That's just my opinion, of course....
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Eric Lund
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2074
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| Posted: 26 October 2005 at 7:33am | IP Logged | 8
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I think that is why Marvel failed on their mini-series... Think of Camelot 3000 and how great that was... They had different inkers but Bolland was there all the way and it made it a cohesive package... I think now with the Ultimates and some of the X-men runs they collect they get the idea that people want a uniform story and art experience... I think that is the way comics need to go. Self contained stories in chapter format like a book. A creative team is hired to produce a finite issue length story...beginning middle end like a novel and complete that. I think the days of the serial storyline that goes on and on forever are over..... Mini-series are the way to go and I think that with the packaging of it people can then jump on with whatever creative team they like be committed for 4-6-8-10 issues and then be done....Byrne's run on Captain America was a great example of a team on a book that offered a consistant vision. I think that creative teams should be hired for a finite amount of time like they are doing with JLA Classified....
(Here comes the firestorm...)
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133855
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| Posted: 26 October 2005 at 7:34am | IP Logged | 9
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Why does Watchmen get a lot of praise from a lot of comic fans,critics,and creators, while the Squadron Supreme mini series (which has also garnered some praise and a cult following) is mostly ignored or out right dismissed by these same,fans,critics,and creators?++++ Almost certainly the answer lies in the gulf between the relative sophistication of approach between the two works. **** Or the pretentiousness of the readers.
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Paul Go
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Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
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| Posted: 26 October 2005 at 7:37am | IP Logged | 10
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Yeah, I agree with many here that the inconsistancy of the art in Squadron Supreme killed it. That said, I recall it as one of the best limited series of its time with a lot of interesing ideas explored well.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: 26 October 2005 at 7:38am | IP Logged | 11
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How many classic stories of American comics kept switching art teams? **** Define "classic story", and possibly "kept". The Kree/Skrull War is considered a classic at Marvel, but the art team changed just before the end. What is remembered as the Thomas/Adams run on X-MEN is actually the Thomas/O'Neil/Adams/Heck/Buscema run.
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James C. Taylor
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4705
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| Posted: 26 October 2005 at 7:54am | IP Logged | 12
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The Englehart Rogers Austin run on Detective starts Englehart Simonson Milgrom as well.
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Topic Closed)
