| Author |
|
Andrew Bitner
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7533
|
| Posted: 25 October 2005 at 11:32am | IP Logged | 1
|
|
|
Gotta admit, I really did wonder about a character naming himself after a ruler whose empire vanished into oblivion...
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Andrew Bitner
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7533
|
| Posted: 25 October 2005 at 11:35am | IP Logged | 2
|
|
|
I should also probably add that I'm glad DC didn't let Moore use the Charlton characters for Watchmen, as he'd originally pitched. It's been noted that he broke those toys and broke 'em good... so I'm glad that the Charlton characters are (more or less) still available.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 2232
|
| Posted: 25 October 2005 at 4:03pm | IP Logged | 3
|
|
|
I have a question for you guys. Why does Watchmen get a lot of praise from a lot of comic fans,critics,and creators, while the Squadron Supreme mini series (which has also garnered some praise and a cult following) is mostly ignored or out right dismissed by these same,fans,critics,and creators? Is it becuse Squadron Supreme was suitable for all ages and had a more upbeat and hopeful measage then Watchmen? Is it because Moore was a more popular writer then Grunewald?
For the record, I have read the Squadron Supreme mini series and I liked it. I have NOT read Watchmen, nor do I plan on reading it. I did however, skim through the Watchmen tpb and I have either read or heard enough about the series to get the basic premis behind the series.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
|
| Posted: 25 October 2005 at 4:09pm | IP Logged | 4
|
|
|
SS is dismissed? That's news to me. Maybe if Dave Gibbons drew it, it would be thought of more highly today.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
Rob Hewitt
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10182
|
| Posted: 25 October 2005 at 4:24pm | IP Logged | 5
|
|
|
I feel it is more faded than dismissed. You used to hear more about it. It's a shame and it may be because Mark Gruenwald passed on before his time.
But I'll always appreciate mark's remarks and the enthusiasm he had for Marvel Comics.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 2232
|
| Posted: 25 October 2005 at 4:27pm | IP Logged | 6
|
|
|
I never said Squadron Supreme was dismissed, just that it does'nt get nearly as much praise or recognition as Watchmen does.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Eric Kleefeld
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4422
|
| Posted: 25 October 2005 at 4:28pm | IP Logged | 7
|
|
|
There's something about Squadron Supreme that sets it apart from its more
famous deconstructionist brothers. In a way, it was even more extreme in
that it took heroes made to resemble the Justice League and then had them
do things the Justice League would never be doing (tyranny, brainwashing,
theft, rape, killing, etc.) and keeping it in the tone of an old-school super-
hero comic.
Watchmen and Dark Knight Returns are known as much for their tone as
their subject matter. Squadron Supreme, however, had a certain subversive
quality in the way it worked.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
Rance Johnson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 May 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 269
|
| Posted: 25 October 2005 at 5:03pm | IP Logged | 8
|
|
|
EricKleefeld wrote:
it took heroes made to resemble the Justice League and then had them
do things the Justice League would never be doing (tyranny, brainwashing,
theft, rape, killing, etc.) |
|
|
Wait for it...
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Eric Kleefeld
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4422
|
| Posted: 25 October 2005 at 5:06pm | IP Logged | 9
|
|
|
I know we've already gotten the brainwashing part, but have they done the
tyranny as well?
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
Kevin Pierce
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 September 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2010
|
| Posted: 25 October 2005 at 5:18pm | IP Logged | 10
|
|
|
I enjoyed Watchmen, but I don't care to see that in the mainstream comics.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Dave Farabee
Byrne Robotics Member
Quit Forum
Joined: 01 September 2004
Posts: 981
|
| Posted: 25 October 2005 at 5:19pm | IP Logged | 11
|
|
|
QUOTE:
| Why does Watchmen get a lot of praise from a lot of comic fans,critics,and creators, while the Squadron Supreme mini series (which has also garnered some praise and a cult following) is mostly ignored or out right dismissed by these same,fans,critics,and creators? |
|
|
Almost certainly the answer lies in the gulf between the relative sophistication of approach between the two works. Whether one thinks it succeeded or not, WATCHMEN clearly aspired to a more literate, layered approach. SQUADRON SUPREME used more conventional superhero storytelling, played things more straightforward.
But while SQUADRON SUPREME hasn't achieved WATCHMEN-level fame, I rarely hear it dismissed. I know many fans of it.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4069
|
| Posted: 25 October 2005 at 7:56pm | IP Logged | 12
|
|
|
If Dave Gibbons had illustrated Squadron Supreme and Bob Hall &
Paul Ryan had illustrated Watchmen, I think both series would be
have come and gone without a huge impact on comics. Watchmen
pretty much had the absolute perfect artist for the job in Gibbons,
while Squadron Supreme's artwork was...um, adequate, I guess.
Stick Alan Davis, John Byrne, Walt Simonson, Paul Smith, John Romita
Jr. or any number of more dynamic artists on the book back in 1985
and it would have been a best-selling trade paperback by 1990 that
never would have gone out of print for any length of time. The
story's good, but instead of great art elevating the story, we've got
average art dragging the story down a few notches.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
e-mail
|
| |
Topic Closed)
