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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4075
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| Posted: 01 October 2005 at 2:34pm | IP Logged | 1
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*Y'know, the first issue of All-Star Superman hasn't even shipped
yet, and I don't know if it's been solicited as a monthly comic, either
(All-Star Batman's managed two issues since mid-July, so I guess
these books are shipping on a different schedule anyway). Quitely's
We3 came out monthly, his X-Men didn't. It's jumping the gun to
worry about missed deadlines this early in the game, isn't it?
*Nobody seemed to complain about the lateness of All-Star Batman,
come to think of it. Is it because Jim Lee's more of a traditional
superhero artist and Frank Miller's making movies these days that
they get a free pass? Maybe there are enough other Batman comics
out there that no one notices if one doesn't come out as frequently
as the others.
*The "wife and kids" excuse is valid for artists but not for people in
regular professions like teaching because the arts are different.
Sorry, but that's the way it is. If an artist or writer doesn't produce
work on time, or at all, he's the one that's going to lose income from
it, he's the one that might lose his home, and the world's going to
go on, regardless. I'll miss his writing if Grant Morrison quits comics
tomorrow, but I'll survive. Comics are a luxury item, and if I have to
wait longer for a Grant Morrison/Frank Quitely comic, that's a lot
different than going to the emergency room and finding out that the
doctors and nurses have all decided to stay home and play video
games or discovering that all the teachers at your kid's school are
taking a month off just because they felt like it.
Sure, it affects retailers when books ship late (and again, this one
hasn't shipped at all yet, so who knows what'll happen with it), but at
this stage in the game, retailers know the risk they're taking on
Morrison/Quitely books. Morrison's Seven Soldiers ships on
schedule, All-Star Superman might not. They know by now how
many they'll sell if everything's on time, how many people are going
to buy it as long as it's good, how many people (which person, more
likely) are going to say "This book was due a week ago, but they
aren't getting my money now!" and how much money they can afford
to tie up in books that might run late. If a Morrison/Quitely issue is
going to sell a lot whenever it shows up, does DC really want to
schedule every third issue with a different creative team telling a
different story just so they can claim to have yet another monthly
Superman book? There's enough competition for my comic-buying
dollar every week (usually at least two or three books with Superman
in them, for that matter) that I'm not even going to notice if a well-
drawn book that's got a separate continuity from all the other ones
isn't on the rack on time.
Also on the wife and kids issue, just because you work out of the
home (and some artists rent studios off-site, by the way) doesn't
mean that you don't have deadlines and aren't putting a minimum
amount of drawing time every day, no matter what. If Quitely
doesn't work, his family doesn't eat, and balancing a work-at-home
schedule with family life has its own unique complications.
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Mike O'Brien
Byrne Robotics Member
Official JB Historian
Joined: 18 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10927
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| Posted: 01 October 2005 at 2:34pm | IP Logged | 2
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uh, I'd like to point out that back when we had that "finish JB's old FF pages" thing...? I totally blew off Bob and Matt in LA to sit down at a diner and finish the work.
Made the deadline, too.
Bitter irony? I wouldn't work for comics for all the money in microsoft.
(Er! Producers take note - I'll work in film for peanuts!)
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 135379
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| Posted: 01 October 2005 at 2:36pm | IP Logged | 3
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The "wife and kids" excuse is valid for artists but not for people in regular professions like teaching because the arts are different. ***** If you're starving in a garret, maybe. But the moment "the arts" become your profession, no, no different at all.
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Ron De Marco
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 364
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| Posted: 01 October 2005 at 3:02pm | IP Logged | 4
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The images of Quitely's where the colors have been removed and only the
blacks are depicted probably isn't a fair representation of the pencil
art. I don't really know, I'm just guessing, but I'm suspecting that
the 'digital inking' process didn't process all of the pencils as
blacks in the final image. So removing all color isn't going to
even approximate what the original pencils were on the page.
Removing the colors might be also removing some of the pencil lines as
well.
For the record, I really like the work, and I'm glad that the S shield was corrected to be more on model.
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Rob Hewitt
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10182
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| Posted: 01 October 2005 at 3:07pm | IP Logged | 5
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I kind of resent the attitude that the arts are different.
I am working pretty hard, and have deadlines on research assignments from my partners and such. and i have a new wife I'd like to spend more time with. and if I blow a deadline, I would get reamed out-even though in almost all cases, it would be possible to get an adjournment (unless it has happened several times before)-and it would effect bonuses and raises.
Also, if an artist is late and an issue is skipped for a month they lose that month of sales.
If it came out that month, but by someone else, it would have to drop a whole lot for it to be worth it to miss that month.
Say you sell 100,000, skip a month, a 100,000.
It would still be better to sell 100,000, 50,000 (with the fill-in), and then 80,000 (with the original guy minus any drop off at anger for the fill-in for the fill-in).
He isn't late yet. But if he is, and this is a 12 issue arch in a brand new book, there is no reason enough issues can't be in the can to insure no lateness.
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Steve Lyons
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 September 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2171
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| Posted: 01 October 2005 at 3:08pm | IP Logged | 6
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All I know is, if I miss a deadline at work, there's hell to pay and I may not get another shot at a deadline. I make it a point of personal pride to do what it takes to honor my committments. And I can understand my bosses and customers for being upset about missed deadlines.
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12843
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| Posted: 01 October 2005 at 3:12pm | IP Logged | 7
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Sure, no one is going to die if Superman doesn't come out on time. But
the publisher makes less money, and that is what a truly professional
creator should be concerned about.
Edited by Joe Zhang on 01 October 2005 at 3:13pm
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Thomas Moudry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5060
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| Posted: 01 October 2005 at 3:18pm | IP Logged | 8
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*The "wife and kids" excuse is valid for artists but not for people in
regular professions like teaching because the arts are different.
Sorry, but that's the way it is. If an artist or writer doesn't produce
work on time, or at all, he's the one that's going to lose income from
it, he's the one that might lose his home, and the world's going to
go on, regardless. I'll miss his writing if Grant Morrison quits comics
tomorrow, but I'll survive. Comics are a luxury item, and if I have to
wait longer for a Grant Morrison/Frank Quitely comic, that's a lot
different than going to the emergency room and finding out that the
doctors and nurses have all decided to stay home and play video
games or discovering that all the teachers at your kid's school are
taking a month off just because they felt like it.
If I don't produce, my students don't get what they need, and they're ill-prepared. If I don't produce, my school's scores go down, and we lose federal and state funding. This supports your comics-as-luxury-items comparison.
However, If I don't produce as a teacher, I get fired--tenured or not. Pretty much affects my income.
The professional artist has a profession, and s/he should honor it by respecting deadlines, employers, consumers, etc.
Edited by Thomas Moudry on 01 October 2005 at 3:20pm
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Mike Farley
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2701
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| Posted: 01 October 2005 at 4:06pm | IP Logged | 9
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*Nobody seemed to complain about the lateness of All-Star Batman,
come to think of it. Is it because Jim Lee's more of a traditional
superhero artist and Frank Miller's making movies these days that
they get a free pass? Maybe there are enough other Batman comics
out there that no one notices if one doesn't come out as frequently
as the others.
*****
ALL-STAR BATMAN AND ROBIN is on a six-week release schedule so I don't believe it is late.
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Eric Kleefeld
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4419
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| Posted: 01 October 2005 at 5:13pm | IP Logged | 10
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Ron De Marco:
Removing the colors might be also removing some of the pencil lines as
well.
==========
Great point. I have a feeling that when the digital "inker" and colorist are the
same person, we're talking about a lot of color holds, plus different
shades of colors put in where Quitely used pencil lines to indicate shading.
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Flavio Sapha
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Brazil
Posts: 12912
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| Posted: 01 October 2005 at 5:41pm | IP Logged | 11
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The "recap" is what really bugs me in this preview. Its four panels read like
a secret handshake...not like something intended to be what Jim Shooter
termed "somebody's first comic".
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Jason Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2473
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| Posted: 01 October 2005 at 6:31pm | IP Logged | 12
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I think enough people -- even kids -- are familiar enough with
Superman's origins that there's no need to make the recap particularly
extended.
JB speaks of fans-turned-pro -- the irony is that Quitely is apparently
not a fan-turned-pro -- hence Morrison's comments about how it's not
his main goal in life to do American superhero comics.
And WE3 #3 was quite late as I recall. I'm sick to bloody death of late
books but I loved #1 and #2 so much I couldn't even consider not
picking up #3.
I presume, perhaps naively, that all issues of ALL-STAR SUPERMAN will
ship on time -- after all, the shipping date of #1 was put off by
months in order to allow Quitely to get on schedule.
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Topic Closed)
