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Rob Hewitt Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 11 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 10182
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| Posted: 01 October 2005 at 1:04pm | IP Logged | 1
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You would think today a delay would be even more costly
In the past, when you at least got a full issue with a beginning middle and end of sorts, even if continued, and got your money's worth sort of speak, a delay might not blunt the momentum.
But since many stories barely advance issue to issue, and have a smaller "content" per issue, you would think to keep the momentum going you'd need those 6 issues to keep coming quickly, or people would lose focus. i know it happend to me on several series.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 135379
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| Posted: 01 October 2005 at 1:08pm | IP Logged | 2
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The Buscema quote, above, refers to the actual process of drawing superheroes, which, when compared to something like Conan or Tarzan, is indeed a "pain in the ass". Drawing superheroes is amongst the most demanding jobs an artist can take on, if he is going to do it properly -- and, of course, it is a given that Buscema would do it properly.He's not denegrating superheroes per se, only the process of drawing them.
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Thomas Mets Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 05 September 2004 Location: United States Posts: 898
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| Posted: 01 October 2005 at 1:08pm | IP Logged | 3
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You would think today a delay would be even more costly
In the past, when you at least got a full issue with a beginning
middle and end of sorts, even if continued, and got your money's worth
sort of speak, a delay might not blunt the momentum.
But since many stories barely advance issue to issue, and have a
smaller "content" per issue, you would think to keep the momentum going
you'd need those 6 issues to keep coming quickly, or people would lose
focus. i know it happend to me on several series.
------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------------------------
From my understanding All Star Superman is supposed to be 12
self-contained stories, inter-related by a 12 labors of Superman theme,
so any dealys in the book won't hurt the momentum.
Based on New X-Men #121-122, 126, 134-138, WE3 #1-3. and the
previews for All Star Superman I do agree that Quitely's art is worth
waiting for, but he shouldn't be put on mini-series, and story arcs.
He's perfect for self-contained issues, and OGNs.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 135379
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| Posted: 01 October 2005 at 1:10pm | IP Logged | 4
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Also, it's eerie how much Frank Quitely people look like Frank Quitely. I know it's a common trait among comic artists, but it really does apply here: ***** Many artists use a mirror to get facial expressions right. I decided not to do this very early on in my career. I am really bad with likenesses, generally speaking, yet for some reason, when I don't want a likeness, they come shining thru! And I didn't want all my characters to look like me!
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Thanos Kollias Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 19 June 2004 Location: Greece Posts: 5009
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| Posted: 01 October 2005 at 1:15pm | IP Logged | 5
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Grant Morrison: Even if it
doesn't get published monthly, who cares ? It's genius. It's not like
he ever wanted to draw American superhero comics anyway ...so the way I
see it, we Quitely fans should be thankful we get any goddamn comic
books out of him at all.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Saying Frank Quitely's art is worth waiting for is not the same as
saying that anyone who can produce timely art is shit - not as good -
etc.
********************************************************** *************
I am sorry, John (McMahon), but you got something wrong there. The
quote of Morrison's interview that JB used (1st paragraph above) is a
long way from what you posted. John commented on the statement he
quoted, not on what you just posted.
I can understand how the art of a person can be important to some
people or why they would wait for him to finish the book (I would wait
for a John Byrne book, but only because he has never failed me before),
but saying we should be thankful, that he does us a favor, who cares
and all the bs Morisson says is something that insults my intelligence
and my position as consumer.
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Jason Fulton Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 3938
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| Posted: 01 October 2005 at 1:15pm | IP Logged | 6
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Can someone give me the exact year that the relationship between comic book professional and fan become like Tina and Ike?
"Please piss on me, Grant Morrison! Piss on me and make me feel complete!"
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Rob Hewitt Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 11 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 10182
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| Posted: 01 October 2005 at 1:17pm | IP Logged | 7
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but he shouldn't be put on mini-series, and story arcs. He's perfect for self-contained issues, and OGNs. *******
They could get more in the can before they solicit the mini-series though, or even the storyarc. This is a new book-they should be able to have enough issues in the can ahead of time to insure a monthly output----
especially since this is supposed to reach out to casual, character familiar but non comic reading, or non-regular Superman book reading fans.
If it it to reach out to them., the product has to be there. They can't pick up an issue or two and then wait a few months-that is a loss of momentum for the purpose of the line.
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Jason Fulton Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 3938
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| Posted: 01 October 2005 at 1:19pm | IP Logged | 8
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Maybe they're trying to 'break-in' the legions of new fans by demonstrating that 'high quality comics' are no longer expected to be produced in a timely fashion.
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Rob Hewitt Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 11 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 10182
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| Posted: 01 October 2005 at 1:40pm | IP Logged | 9
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Joe Quesada on lateness, and the spoiling of events in some books, by the main book shipping late:
NRAMA: Onto those aforementioned reader questions then...
“Johnny Triangles” has a somewhat lengthy and multi-part question:
“Now that there is a return to crossovers and an attempt is being made to make the books interact more and be more of a cohesive universe, is there going to be less tolerance for lateness? When you and [Bill] Jemas first started each book was treated like its own separate universe and the lateness didn't really affect any other titles. But now, thanks to lateness, we have some series coming out late and their resolutions being spoiled by other series.”
JQ: Well, with the Marvel events like House of M which aren’t true crossovers in the sense of the word, yes, it’s important that the books that are involved in the event meet a certain time line, if not, what’s the point? In cases like Spider-Man: The Other, where it is a true crossover, then it’s absolutely imperative if not it all comes crumbling down like a house of cards.
NRAMA: “Johnny Triangles” continues…
”Just for a few examples, Sentry and Wolverine appeared as New Avengers members before actually joining. Events from Astonishing X-Men were referenced in New Avengers and House of M before that book resolved itself. Secret War resolution with Nick Fury has been spoiled several places/ The Ultimates is usually behind its sister Ultimate books and is consistently getting spoiled and so forth...
”In light of the return to a more cohesive Marvel universe, have any conscious efforts been made to curtail lateness? (A good first sign is the 3 rotating art teams announced for New Avengers)”
JQ: Yes, we’re always addressing the problem of lateness, it is a never-ending battle in the world of comics, but I have to admit that this is really beginning to be one of those played out topics on the ‘net as if this is the first time in the history of comics that comics have been late.
Look, I’m not trying to excuse lateness, but the ‘net acts like this is something new. We can go back to the days of Image when those books shipped irregularly, or when you had to wait months and months between issues of Watchmen and even worse, the issues of The Dark Knight Returns (most people don’t remember anymore).
Or how back in the day - yes the glory days as some people like to remember them - if a title was going to be late, rather than miss a month Marvel would insert a reprint story. Late comics will always be something that we will have to deal with. Some months will be better than others, you just do what you have to do to try to keep the plates spinning.
http://www.newsarama.com/JoeFridays/JoeFridays19.html
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Jason Fulton Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 3938
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| Posted: 01 October 2005 at 1:46pm | IP Logged | 10
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I think there is a difference between creator A having deadline issues and creator B having deadline issues AND telling the fans to fuckoff and like it. Like, I don't remember interviews with Art Adams or Frank Miller or Alan Moore or anyone else from 'back then' that said 'Comic fans suck, and I'm angry because I chose to sign a contract saying that I would produce an American superhero funnybook, and I think everyone that reads American superhero funnybooks are fucking morons, and I hold them in such contempt that you'll get the work when I'm damn good and ready to do it - ie probably after I beat this really hard level of Super Mario Brothers'.
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Arvid Spejare Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 17 April 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 386
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| Posted: 01 October 2005 at 2:05pm | IP Logged | 11
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Gregg Allinson wrote:
]
I'll put it this way: Art Adams came aboard The Authority to pinch-hit because Quitely was behind. Think about that: Art Adams had to bail him out.
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IIRC, Art Adams was hired to do The Authority when Quitely left to go to Marvel in the middle of a story arc.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 135379
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| Posted: 01 October 2005 at 2:23pm | IP Logged | 12
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I think there is a difference between creator A having deadline issues and creator B having deadline issues AND telling the fans to fuckoff and like it. Like, I don't remember interviews with Art Adams or Frank Miller or Alan Moore or anyone else from 'back then' that said 'Comic fans suck, and I'm angry because I chose to sign a contract saying that I would produce an American superhero funnybook, and I think everyone that reads American superhero funnybooks are fucking morons, and I hold them in such contempt that you'll get the work when I'm damn good and ready to do it - ie probably after I beat this really hard level of Super Mario Brothers'. ***** A lot of this, I suspect, comes from the heavy shift toward fans-turned-pro we see in the industry today -- there is really no one left who was not a fan before joining the industry, even in the "old guard" -- coupled with an equally heavy shift in the number of readers, proportionately, who want to turn pro. I doubt there is any other industry, in or out of the entertainment field, that has so many followers who believe they can do the job, and in many cases do it better than those actually doing it. Fact is, of course, most of the people who think they can do the job simply can't, even without factoring in the level of quality they are capable of producing. They can't get the work done in any kind of timely fashion. I cannot begin to count the number of fans who have asked me "how (I) do it", and then expressed an inability or an unwillingness to basically chain themselves to the drawingboard until the job is done. They are about equal tho, I am sure, to the number of people who have asked to show me their portfolios at cons, and then, as soon as I start looking at the work, launched into all kinds of songs and dances about why pages are unfinished, or rushed, or anything other than professional looking. All the excuses invariably boil down to "I didn't have time to finish". So -- along comes a small army of thoroughly unprofessional artists who cannot or will not produce the work on the schedules to which they have implicitly agreed -- and yet they are "successful" and "fan faves" and so, to the people mentioned above, are indicators that it is possible to be a bum, to miss deadlines, to make excuses -- yes, to piss all over the fans -- and be successful. In fact, we have actually created a mentality in the fan base which looks to this kind of juvenile behavior as a measure of success. The later the work, the "better" the work. What wannabe doesn't love to be told that? Vindication! (I have to flash back now to when I was starting up on MAN OF STEEL, and DC announced that the six issue miniseries would ship twice a month. All across the country retailers expressed concern that this schedule could not be met. No one was considering, apparently, that I would be starting far enough ahead that this would be no problem. And, indeed, it was no problem. Not one issue of MoS shipped late. But what is important here is -- retailers were worried that the issues would ship late. Worried enough to express their concerns directly to DC. I wonder what would have happened if we had pulled this current crap and told them it would not matter if the issues were late, because they would be "worth the wait"? Of course -- those were the same retailers, back then, who complained that the double-cover we did on MoS -- a first -- was a "rip off" and "gouging the readers". Whatever happened to those guys? Were they crush to death by the waves of speculators who came in a few years later?)
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