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Steve Lyons
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 September 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2171
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| Posted: 01 October 2005 at 9:33pm | IP Logged | 1
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All I know is, if I miss a deadline at work, there's hell to pay and I may not get another shot at a deadline. I make it a point of personal pride to do what it takes to honor my committments. And I can understand my bosses and customers for being upset about missed deadlines.
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This is a cruel thing to say, but I believe it's safe to say that you'll be easier to replace than John Cassady, Frank Quitely, JH Williams, Brian Hitch, Steve McNiven, or another well-regarded routinely late artists.
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Probably. I'm willing to bet there are other people out there who can do my job. It's my responsibility to make sure management has no reason to give them the chance. No one is irreplacable.
This is a matter of professionalism and respect. As I've said before, failure to honor a committment, especially if you never intended to honor the committment, is not acceptable to me. I don't do business with people that way, and I don't expect them to do that to me. I admire the work of some of the artists you listed above, but, to be cruel, there's a convention floor of wannabes, hopefuls, and prospects looking for the shot to replace each of them if they can't deliver. The next John Byrne is out there, looking for an opportunity.
The problem is with fanboys that buy this load of hogwash everytime somebody gets addicted to GTA: San Andreas. If you're willing to deal with delays, extra delays, and late shipments, that's your perogative. I'm voting with my dollars, thank you very much.
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Thomas Moudry
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5060
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| Posted: 01 October 2005 at 9:48pm | IP Logged | 2
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Wayne: Thanks for that hilarious analogy! I almost drowned in Diet Mountain Dew!
Rob: We don't have that problem in my county. Things have changed dramatically.
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12843
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| Posted: 01 October 2005 at 9:54pm | IP Logged | 3
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"
This is a cruel thing to say, but I believe it's safe to say that
you'll be easier to replace than John Cassady, Frank Quitely, JH
Williams, Brian Hitch, Steve McNiven, or another well-regarded
routinely late artists."
It's an indication of how frightened the publishers are that fans will
just walk away from comics if a star artist or writer doesn't get what
they want.
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Steve Lyons
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 September 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2171
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| Posted: 01 October 2005 at 10:03pm | IP Logged | 4
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Probably true, Joe. But why get held back by these people when there's plenty of talent to draw from? After all, comics didn't die with Jack Kirby or Bob Kane. The NFL has survived the loss of John Elway, Jerry Rice, Jim Brown, and Johnny Unitas. It's time to push this thing forward, not hang around and wait for someone to produce when the mood strikes.
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12843
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| Posted: 01 October 2005 at 10:06pm | IP Logged | 5
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I agree with you. There is really no shortage of talent out there. The
comic industry is being held hostage by the very star system they
created.
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Steve Lyons
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Joined: 02 September 2004
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01 October 2005 at 10:51pm | IP Logged | 6
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Great! How do we go about convincing everybody else?
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4075
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| Posted: 01 October 2005 at 11:42pm | IP Logged | 7
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I'll concede the point that part of being professional is meeting
your agreed-upon deadlines, and that if artists promise to
deliver on a bi-monthly or six-weekly schedule, they owe it to
their employers, at least, to meet their deadlines. Quitely hasn't
missed a ship date on All-Star Superman yet, but DC knows
about his work speed going into the deal and has enough
issues in the can that the book's going to ship on time as far as
we know.
One of the interesting things about comics is that it's a place
where art and commerce intersect. Some fans want 12 issues
a year, every year, no matter what, and seem to be more
concerned about that then what's actually in the book. Some
fans will wait for a book as long as it takes, as long as their
favorite creators are involved. The focus right now is on six-
issue story arcs by a single creative team that will make a good
trade paperback, which is one of the many weird art/commerce
intersections.
For better or for worse, the industry's a lot different now than it
was before Image Comics hit the scene, and the creators
became bigger than their characters. There aren't as many
casual readers anymore, so there's less incentive on Marvel
and DC's part to avoid deadline issues by inserting inventory
stories or getting Sal Buscema to knock out something in a
week-and-a-half (don't read that as a knock against Sal or other
fast artists, by any means). The current readership seems to be
pretty happy just missing a month of Amazing Spider-Man if the
alternative is a two-page framing sequence by the current team
and a Marvel Team-Up reprint filling the rest of the book. If
comics can ever get back into mainstream distribution again,
shipping deadlines would be more of a concern for editors, but
as long as the Direct Market is the primary (practically only)
place to get monthly comics, that's not the way it's going to be.
On Jeff Smith's Captain Marvel--why get upset about that at all?
Captain Marvel's still appearing all over the place in the DCU,
and the Jeff Smith project hasn't been solicited yet because
they're waiting until Jeff's almost done with it so there'll be no
three-to-five month delays over the course of a four-issue book.
Sure, DC jumped the gun by announcing Jeff's next project well
in advance of when it would actually ship, but those four issues
will ship on time and I'm sure they'll be great. Frank Miller's
upcoming books starring Batman (Holy Terror, Batman!), Sin
City (1941, I think...) and Jesus (Jesus!) were all announced
years ago and haven't shown up yet, but it's not like retailers
have plunked down money and have had them on back-order
all this time.
I'm glad all of you have a strong work ethic, but most of us
regular working stiffs who keep the world running aren't in the
unique position of dictating terms to our bosses as far as our
schedules go. Comic creators in high demand are.
Professional athletes are. Singers, actors, writers...if your skills
are unique enough and you've got the audience to back you
up, the rules aren't the same as they are for the rest of us,
unless you want them to be. I've still got to go to work if I've got
a blister on my finger, but Roger Clemens can take the week off
if the same happens to him, since it'll affect his ability to throw a
95-mile per hour fastball. If Frank Quitely says he's going to
take an extra month to finish his X-Men book because he's got
higher-paying work doing something else, or because he's
working at his kid's summer camp, and his editor and
publishing company let him do it, that's their business. Me, as
long as I like the output, I'll buy All-Star Superman whether it's a
monthly book or a 32-page annual event. There's enough
Superman out there, past and present, that I can fill my comic
reading time with something worthwhile while I'm waiting for
the next installment of one particular comic.
None of this is a knock against the artists who make/made all
their deadlines, either. Lee, Kirby and Ditko shipped
everything on time, and produced some of the greatest comics
of all time. My favorite comics by John Byrne, John Romita Jr.
(and Sr.), pretty much all the Marvel and DC Comics I read
growing up...all shipped on time, and I'm sure are just as
enjoyable as they'd have been if the artists had put in an extra
week or two on each issue every now and again. The bulk of
the monthly comics produced today actually ship monthly, and I
think we can afford a handful of "superstars" whose books ship
late every now and again. (And any Morrison/Quitely delays
are going to pale in comparison to Joe Quesada and Kevin
Smith's year-plus delays between issues of their various mini-
series, so it's all relative...)
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Rob Hewitt
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10182
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| Posted: 01 October 2005 at 11:45pm | IP Logged | 8
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On Jeff Smith's Captain Marvel--why get upset about that at all?
Captain Marvel's still appearing all over the place in the DCU,
***
and here I thought people were talking about Captain Marvel from Marvel. What a dope I am!
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Dave Farabee
Byrne Robotics Member
Quit Forum
Joined: 01 September 2004
Posts: 977
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| Posted: 02 October 2005 at 12:31am | IP Logged | 9
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QUOTE:
| Sources? I have read interviews in which Buscema was dismissive of the importance some folk seemed to place on comics, but not of the comics themselves. |
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I'd have to poke around a bit on this one and I'm afraid my comics and comic-related magazines are in such a state of disorganization that that's a no-go.
BUT...I did have first-hand experience with Buscema calling superheroes "silly" at San Diego a few months before his death. Was during a Q & A session and he was relating some anecdote about a superhero comic that he said was silly. Then, he added with a laugh, "Oh, they're all silly!" I thought he might just have been being a little extra curmudgeonly at the time - just gettin' older - but most interviews I came across subsequently seemed to back up that attitude. He continually emphasized how much more fun he had with Conan than anything superhero, and his preference for classic subjects over superheroes and their modern-world trappings. Here's a typical sentiment I found with a little Googling:
ROY THOMAS: You wonder why I saved the stuff?
BUSCEMA: Well, Roy, I'm not a fan of comics.
RT: No kidding. [laughs]
BUSCEMA: As far as I'm concerned, if I never saw another comic-! The only thing I've saved is a couple of Conan books we worked on, and that's it. I got rid of everything. One of the reasons, which upset me over the years, is that other people were inking my stuff, and that is not my work. I can't look at it. The ones I inked, yes, I keep. Anything with super-heroes, I'm not interested. Only the Conans.
It seems that like so many of the great Silver Age pros, Buscema mostly viewed comic book art as a job, and not one he was always enthused for. I think he makes a good case for judging the final product over the artist's opinion of it and/or his enjoyment of the creative process.
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Dave Farabee
Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 01 September 2004
Posts: 977
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| Posted: 02 October 2005 at 12:48am | IP Logged | 10
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Very much in agreement with what Andrew just posted.
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Eric Kleefeld
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Joined: 21 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4419
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| Posted: 02 October 2005 at 1:32am | IP Logged | 11
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I kind of like the idea of the same person serving as digital inker and
colorist. If we now expect various color effects, even beyond color holds,
why not have the same person providing all the tones, from blacks to the
brightest colors? If done well, it can give the book a consistent feel when it
comes to lighting and shades, rather than seeing some tug of war between
the inker and the colorist.
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Glenn Brown
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3094
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| Posted: 02 October 2005 at 2:18am | IP Logged | 12
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Dave...were you at Pro/Con at San Diego where Buscema was the guest panelist along with Dave Gibbons?
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Topic Closed)
