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Vinny Valenti
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8212
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| Posted: 16 September 2005 at 11:07pm | IP Logged | 1
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Now, lookee here, Tishman. I happen to lean towards the Slashdot-type,
"information wants to be free" camp, but even so, I think you are
giving yourself and the Wiki folks far too much credit. It's great to
have a collaborative environment where information can be pooled
together. In theory. All it would take to make that closer to reality
is for there to be a layer of fact-checking required BEFORE a wiki
contribution goes up. Is that too much to ask? The system doesn't work
when practically anything can be put up before it gets subjected to
peer review. I don't care if it's torn down within a minute - what if a
"civilian" happens to see the offending blurb before it's removed, then
never comes back to find it retracted? The damage is already done then.
I hope JB goes after the douchebag who posted that he was a sex offender, just to teach him and other potential trolls a lesson.
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Mike Tishman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 July 2005
Posts: 229
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| Posted: 16 September 2005 at 11:11pm | IP Logged | 2
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Steve Lyons wrote:
| Everyone starts everything as an amateur. Most hope
to exceed that level of competence before too long. |
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Amateurism is not necessarily a function of competence. It just means
it's not what you do to pay the bills. There are a lot of amateurs
whose work exceeds that of professionals. Harvey Pekar never made
enough money to give up his job, but his contribution to the comics
field is probably more highly-regarded than that of, say, Rob Liefield.
One's an "amateur," the other is a "professional."
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Steve Lyons
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 September 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2171
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| Posted: 16 September 2005 at 11:47pm | IP Logged | 3
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True, amateurism does not indicate incompetence, but that's the way to bet your money. Most people want professional education, health care, construction, structural studies, accounting practices, etc. The amateur versions of such things are disasters waiting to happen. True, also, of encyclopedias.
What we're talking about is a forum which is passing rumor, innuendo, and flat-out lies as facts. That there is no fact-checking before publication is a greivous error, which no professional publication or reputable source would make. True, occasionally a media source's biases and prejudices are published without proper checking >coughCBScough<, but that is a failure to reach a professional standard of accountability. It is the exception, not the rule. And it certainly isn't the usual manner of doing business. Sounds to me like Wikipedia is about as useful as graffitti on a bathroom wall.
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Melissa Ashton
Byrne Robotics Member
Nudge
Joined: 15 April 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 1379
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| Posted: 17 September 2005 at 12:31am | IP Logged | 4
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So, can anyone explain why when I go to edit the page there's a sentence that reads:
"He is currently working mainly for DC Comics."
and yet, when I just view the page, the same sentence reads:
"He is currently working mainly for DC Comics because Marvel is beneath him"
How can that be?
I used to recommend Wikipedia to people. I'll only be telling them now that it's random crap put together by whoever wants to say whatever they want. What a load of shit.
You can call it an encyclopedia if you want, but it's really only a barely-moderated message board.
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Mike Tishman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 July 2005
Posts: 229
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| Posted: 17 September 2005 at 12:48am | IP Logged | 5
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You people are a bunch of fucking idiots, a bunch of embarassing Luddite relics.
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Jim Yingst
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 866
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| Posted: 17 September 2005 at 1:14am | IP Logged | 6
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Melissa Ashton wrote:
So, can anyone explain why when I go to edit the
page there's a sentence that reads:
"He is currently working mainly for DC Comics."
and yet, when I just view the page, the same sentence reads:
"He is currently working mainly for DC Comics because Marvel is beneath
him"
How can that be? |
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It's because there's currently a big edit war going on, and the
content is changing frequently. For you it changed between when you
viewed the page normally, and when you hit edit (or vice versa). You
can look at the history of the JB page
and see the changes. For a given line, click on the word "last" to see
a before and after comparison of what that particular edit changed.
Prior to this I've had very good experiences using Wikipedia, and I hope
they find a better way to deal with this sort of crap. At least now I know
to check a page history to get an idea of how many recent changes there
are; that should give some idea how reliable the contents are at ony one
time. A low number of changes would not be a guarantee of accuracy of
course - but I think it would serve as some indication at least.
Edited by Jim Yingst on 17 September 2005 at 1:30am
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John Leach
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1860
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| Posted: 17 September 2005 at 1:18am | IP Logged | 7
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Alright! Finally someone to put on my ignore list! The level of drivel out of Tishman's keyboard is amazing, and I'm almost gonna miss it.
Almost...
Edited by John Leach on 17 September 2005 at 1:18am
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Charles Jensen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 April 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 1127
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| Posted: 17 September 2005 at 1:19am | IP Logged | 8
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Here is how Wikipedia should really work... it should be like an Amazon.com review section. Rather than everyone fighting for their version of what the encyclopedia entry should be and reediting them, each person should have their own entry if they want. And then each entry can also be reviewed and or scored with somekind of ranking system.
I'm no luddite... I just don't like the idea of some arbitrary person or persons, such as Wikipedia's moderators or somekind of half-arsed jury, supposedly representing everyone's opinion.
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 36217
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| Posted: 17 September 2005 at 1:49am | IP Logged | 9
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Mike Tishman wrote:
| You people are a bunch of fucking idiots, a bunch of embarassing Luddite relics. |
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Wow. Way to raise the level of discourse, Mike! People don't agree with you, so you curse them and call them grade school names. It's one thing to be passionate about something. It's another to resort to name calling, pack your bags and go home...like you've done several times in this thread.
BTW, no need to parse this post into fourteen different sections if you choose to reply to it. One nice, concise paragraph or a couple of sentences will do.
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Dave Pruitt
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6169
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| Posted: 17 September 2005 at 6:48am | IP Logged | 10
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No, he's right, Matt. We're all Luddite relics. Sure, we're all connected to the internet, using computers, communicating via words typed on a keyboard, but in my case, that's just because I'm too lazy to express myself by writing you all long letters with my quill tip pen. What's everyone else's excuse?
He's right though. We should embrace a future where all news and information is free, and obtained from any F-ing idiot with a blog, and an agenda to flog. Who needs facts and accountablilty? Talk about your antiquated concepts.
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Todd Hembrough
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 4171
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| Posted: 17 September 2005 at 6:50am | IP Logged | 11
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Well Tishman appears to have gotten airborne again, just long enough to
crash and burn one last time. I wonder if he will be back.
If he hasnt been banned (and he doesnt appear to have been) then this
is yet another object lesson in the idea that we do allow alternate
view points to be expressed. Even those that are offensive, rude,
personally insulting and buffoonish.
I love the concept of wiki's. They are great because the can
benefit from the knowledge that a large mass of people have, and
leverage it in one place. But as the Wired article noted, they
rely on the maturity of the masses, and as we know, and have seen in
the present case, taht is a fairly low standard. And to call
someone a luddite who thinks that the process might benefit from an
editing step before content goes live is bizarre.
It appears the the Wiki folks have drunk the Kool-Aid and bought into
the central conceit of the entire wiki process....YOU can write the
history in REAL TIME!! No grown-ups can stop you, and the MAN
cannot keep you from telling it like it is!!
Many of the comments on JB's wiki "page" focus on the fact that the
process is NOT BEING FOLLOWED!!!! It seems that they would rather
that libelous and actionable content be allowed on the page, and open
the whole project to liability, all in the name of following a
process. (Which was probably handed down from on high like Moses'
tablets).
Everything matures, and the Wild West mentality gives way to a more
mature business model. This is happening in the Blogosphere, and it has
happened in most parts of the internet and the companies that support
it. There has been a large amount of discomfort when this happens
as the anarchic folks who start things up are pushed out by more
reasonable people who understand how the world, and the businesses and
media companies within it work.
it looks like it is time for the wiki process to mature as well.
If the "originalists" resist, then there will come a day where calling
someone a "sex-offender" will result in legal problems. I suspect
that falling back on the graffity on a bathroom wall defense will not
work, in the face of advertising oneself as a receptical of knowledge.
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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 31431
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| Posted: 17 September 2005 at 6:57am | IP Logged | 12
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Troy Nunis wrote:
| "It doesn't matter if it's TRUE, you're entitled to your own personal reality" |
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This is the exact philosophy the owner of my company follows. A sure-fire way to ensure you ruin your company, let me tell you.
Edited by Brian Miller on 17 September 2005 at 7:07am
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Topic Closed)
