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David Uzumeri Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 05 June 2005 Posts: 23
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Posted: 15 September 2005 at 1:23pm | IP Logged | 1
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Dave, they DO ban trolls from Wikipedia. Someone has to report the
trolls first, though. And every single edit that the troll made is
recorded, and can be reverted within seconds, even before the ban takes
effect .
For each addition to an article, Wikipedia records WHO MADE IT, and WHAT THE ARTICLE WAS LIKE PREVIOUSLY.
If everything "JesseBaker" does is vandalism, he'll be blocked from editing.
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Brian Miller Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 28 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 31431
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Posted: 15 September 2005 at 1:23pm | IP Logged | 2
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Will do.
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Joe Zhang Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 12857
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Posted: 15 September 2005 at 1:24pm | IP Logged | 3
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The stuff that Jesse Barker is trying to include:
"A controversial writer/artist known for his
use of the "N-Word" and hatred for blonde latino women, Christopher
Reeves (who Byrne believes should not be considered a "hero" for the
way he dealt with his crippling injuries substained in a horse riding
accident) and anatomically correct robots, Byrne is imfamous for his
hatred for anything not done by him. Many fans blame his widely beloved
Superman reboot for starting this, as John Byrne took on a jihad in the
wake of the reboot's success to "fix" all comic books and comic
franchises that didn't need fixing, leaving a trail of damaged
characters, who thanks to Byrne's pointless meddling, have been
rendered so utterly defiled so as to prevent any further writers from
using them."
How the heck does Wikipedia expect us to "work" with this guy, and
others like this? How can we even find common ground with this? And
Wiki does not ban these guys, they are just content to let them and us
trash it out. I think this will ultimately not be a thing for
"contributors" to decide, but for the courts to settle.
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Joe Zhang Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 12857
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Posted: 15 September 2005 at 1:27pm | IP Logged | 4
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One has to understand Wiki has their own definitions of "editing" and
"vandalism". The commonly accepted idea of editing includes the
deletion of information. Wiki tends to see this as "vandalism". If
someone writes "SHIT" on their article, to delete it would be
considered vandalism. If you replaced it with "FECES", that would be
considered "editing".
Edited by Joe Zhang on 15 September 2005 at 1:29pm
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Brian Miller Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 28 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 31431
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Posted: 15 September 2005 at 1:30pm | IP Logged | 5
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Still not seeing any changes, James.
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Gamaliel Snapdragon Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 14 September 2005 Posts: 11
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Posted: 15 September 2005 at 1:32pm | IP Logged | 6
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The Jesse Baker problem is easily solved. His contributions are
easily reverted. If he reverts the removal of this material more
than three times in 24 hours he can be immediately hit with a temporary
block by any administrator. If he keeps up general trollish
behavior, I can block him permanently, though I must show that I
attempted to reason with him for a reasonable amount of time before I
do something like this. The system is not perfect, but in general
Wikipedians believe that we can put up with a little fuss to preserve
the open nature of the project. Personally, I'd prefer a little less
talk and a little more troll smiting, but I have to work with the
system we've got.
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David Uzumeri Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 05 June 2005 Posts: 23
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Posted: 15 September 2005 at 1:33pm | IP Logged | 7
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No, it's that if you delete the WHOLE PARAGRAPH just because someone
added "SHIT SHIT SHIT SHIT SHIT" to the end of it, that's vandalism.
Cleaning up the lies, that's one thing - and yes, there were a lot of
hateful lies in there. But the whole point is to pick out the stuff
worth keeping, and only delete the rest.
What's wrong with this, for instance?
"John Byrne was born on July 6, 1950 near West Bromwich, England. His first exposure to the American superheroes that would dominate his professional life was at the age of six when he first watched The Adventures of Superman on the BBC. In Britain, he was able to read domestic comics such as The Eagle, as well as the occasional DC Comics reprint, but it was not until 1958 when his family migrated to Canada that he first experienced the full breadth of America comic books [1].
His first encounter with Marvel Comics was in 1962 with Stan Lee and Jack Kirby's Fantastic Four #5. He later commented that, "the book had an 'edge' like nothing DC was putting out at the time." [2]
Jack Kirby's work in particular had a strong influence on Byrne and he
has since chronicled many of the characters Kirby created. This
included a stint on the Fantastic Four that is considered by
some to be second only to Lee and Kirby's run. Besides Kirby's
influence, Byrne has also stated that his early artwork was heavily
informed by the realistic style of Neal Adams.
In 1970 Byrne enrolled at the Alberta College of Art and Design in Calgary,
but he left shortly before graduation to pursue a career in the comic
book industry. At college he produced his first full-length comic
story, The Death's Head Knight, as a promotional portfolio of
his comic book art. That book was seen by a fellow Canadian comics fan,
who put Byrne in contact with both the then burgeoning fanzine community, and Marvel Comics."
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James C. Taylor Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4705
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Posted: 15 September 2005 at 1:33pm | IP Logged | 8
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Brian, check the history section and see if any of my edits appear. If two don't appear, then you're viewing cache.
Gamaliel to his credit has warned "JesseBaker." I would prefer a bio and credits listing for JB, as to a casual observer, what else would truly matter?
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Dave Pruitt Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 6169
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Posted: 15 September 2005 at 1:39pm | IP Logged | 9
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Absolutely. This rumor stuff, how/why JB ever left a book, stuff about what's been said on this forum, who cares about that outside the usual message boards? Maybe wikipedia is a good thing, but this taints it horribly.
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Brian Miller Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 28 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 31431
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Posted: 15 September 2005 at 1:42pm | IP Logged | 10
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They do, James. Is there a certain time period before edits appear in or as the main listing? When I pulled up the main entry on him, it still had the not-so-nice stuff about him on it.
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Jacob P Secrest Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 18 October 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4068
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Posted: 15 September 2005 at 1:44pm | IP Logged | 11
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The entire page has been deleted, everything except the bibliography,
honestly, I think there could of been a better solution than that.
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Roger A Ott II Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 29 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5371
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Posted: 15 September 2005 at 1:45pm | IP Logged | 12
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Gamaliel Snapdragon: The system is not perfect, but in general Wikipedians believe that we can put up with a little fuss to preserve the open nature of the project.
It's this rule that makes me want to have no part in it, though. I honestly think you personally are at least trying to rectify the problem at hand, but letting something like this stand for as long as it has just sours me to the entire concept.
Open nature is one thing, but allowing an obvious hatred-fueled lie to even become part of an article in the first place just tells me the concept has a huge flaw.
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