I agree with the Steve Leiber/David Blot/Mike Tishman side of this discussion and disagree with the Joe Zhang/Chad Carter side.

The comics industry, worldwide, is in fantastic shape. American superhero comics: not so good. For better or worse, people's tastes are changing, especially young readers, who, despite all the complaining about prices, have tremendous buying power and influence over their parents. How else would any of those $9.99 digests sell? Certainly, despite the lack of color, a $9.99 for 160 pages of story is a hell of a better deal than $2.99 for 23 pages. 6 cents a page versus 13 cents a page.

It's public knowledge that TokyoPop, one of the first to create original American manga (and actually go after Neil Gaiman and others to do it) offers advances on royalties as well as a share of the back end. Pop quiz: Which other American publishers are doing that? Marvel, DC, uhhh...Dark Horse... That's three out of dozens.

Two quotes from this anime/manga convention report is telling:

http://www.comicon.com/thebeat

"Several people told me that 15 years ago, anime cons were nothing but men in their 30s."

" ...as these people age, they stay in the market. This isn't something a guy grows out of, but things couples share. Two or three years ago, I saw no couples with small kids there. Now I am seeing them, and I suspect they will become a larger part of the market, and they will be a second wave for the market."

If you're frustrated with the industry as a writer or artist, look outside of superheroes. You don't need to go into advertising or commercial art to find work (look at Steve's post about political cartoons, foreign work, etc). If you're frustrated as a fan, try Box Office Poison (if you liked the movie High Fidelity) or Goodbye, Chunky Rice (for the sentimental) or Whiteout or Queen & Country (if you like TV shows like 24).

As far as manga - if all you see are the girls in sailor suits, the big boobs, and the big eyes - you're not looking hard enough. Check out Eagle: The Story of An American President for a great political comic. Check out Fullmetal Alchemist, which just started, for some interesting viewpoints on religious oppression, along with some great action. Neon Genesis Evangelion has giant robots, sure, but it's also surreal and existentialist.

If you'd rather stick with American creators - as mentioned earlier in the thread, Neil Gaiman has a manga coming out. Welcome to the future.

About girls: yes, not so many girls have read superheroes in their life. But they now read several manga. Here in Italy an exception are the X-Men comics: in the mail pages you can see often girls.

Maybe they think that superheroes are for male only: let's see, we have A) Costumed strong men B) Evil opponents C) Clashes among the 2 categories. They see this like a representation of machism... Like sports. Here we love soccer, but usually women don't watch the matches in tv. Soccer? Boxe? No way! Only for men (I think that sports are for everyone, but this is another story...).

Sometimes I tried to make some gals of mine to know superheroes. But I know that they are not interested in their adventures, so I made them know another side of our masked heroes. This is my favorite example:

(2 years ago, with my best female friend).

"You see, here Spider-Man lifts a building thinking to his wife's love. She is there and is looking at him, so he cannot lose!"
She liked it. Why? Because Spider-Man defeats Goblin and saves the day 'cause his love for Mary Jane.

Of course, sometimes this cannot happen. Certain current comics aren't for all ages and for both male and female. I was talking about this with an Italian publisher days ago. He is a great expert of American comics, but he appreciates manga, too, and knows that they are more succesful than superheroes here, in the US and in other countries. A premise: when Japanese anime arrived in Italy, they were very criticized for low quality and violence. One of the favorite victims of parents and censorers was "Tiger Mask" (see my topic somewhere in this forum).

In these last weeks I have followed the anime again, and I have noticed something interesting in one of the last episodes. Briefly: one of the children at Chibikko House (the orphanage helped by Tiger Mask/Naoto Date) will be soon adopted by her uncles. During the episode Naoto, Ruriko (loved by him) and 2 children are going to the mall by Naoto's car. 
Child: "Ruriko, you and Naoto together seem a nice couple!"
Ruriko: "Oh, shut up!"
Child: "Why? I'm sure that he wouldn't be sorry for this!"
Naoto: "In fact, no!" (he and Ruriko are now ashamed)
Ruriko: (thinks) "My classmate is about to marry... Who knows if I'll never do it!" (of course she and Naoto are in the same image)

Then, at the CH, Ruriko is washing the shirt of the child who will go away.
Naoto says good bye and goes away. When he has gone, Ruriko closes her eyes and has a sad expression. She wanted he stayed there.

Now, what does it means all this? An anime hated and criticized because his violence shows the silent love between these 2 characters in a great way. Naoto loves Ruriko but can't tell her it because Tiger Cave wants to kill him. Ruriko loves Naoto but she's afraid to tell the truth because she know his secret identity. I'm sure that a girl would prefer this to any superheroes comics. I compared this episode with "Sins past". Spider-Man, one of the heroes than most of all represented a certain optimism and good values, does not it anymore. In the Straczynski saga we see the true love among Peter and Gwen humbled and offended. "Girls can do errors!", "Now Gwen is real!". Well, I don't think that any girl could really appreciate a story that shows the sweet, lovely girl next door as a "girl who made an error".

What would a girl chose? "Sins past" or that "Tiger Mask" episode? The 2nd option, I guarantee it.

The sad truth is that comics lose the confrontation with manga when the stories are bad like "Sins past" or "Avengers disassembled". Luckily, there are still good comics like ACTION or GREEN LANTERN.. They reminds to me why I read comics!

I agree with you Mike. But it is up to us to show them what we grew up or have read to expand their readings and interests...

My 5 years old daugther loves Superman and she wants me to tell her the story in the comics book, not some princess fairy tales ! I don't force her... she is the one to pick up what she wants me to "story-tell" her.

"Kids in 2005 are not the same as kids in 1985 or 1965: they have different tastes, different interests, different values, different lifestyles entirely. We can't expect them to like the same kinds of comics we read as kids, no matter how much we'd like to keep reading them ourselves."

First of all, I've never said that superhero comics are the be-all, end-all, but it's my theory that the ICONS of comics, those TM marked, company-owned properties, are indeed larger and more important to the culture than some Manga tripe that's just a flash in the pan.

There's a reason Superman, Batman (from the Aparo years, not now unless it's Dini or something) maybe even the Flash and Wonder Woman, Hulk (in the past), Spider-Man in particular have always fascinated kids and still do whenever these children are exposed to them. I mean, the cynics will say it's because that's ALL the kids as we were had, but that's BS. These icons are fundamental, they speak to kids about power and responsibility, they fire imaginations. Superman comics have sucked, in general, and yet he's arguably still the most recognizable icon in the world. Because of what the very nature of the character says, what he means on some psychological level I won't pretend to understand. If that's only in this country, fine. Whatever.

Icons are fundamentally important. They become part of what you are, they reflect your sense of self. More importantly, they create texture and subtext, even give you something to aspire to, when you're a kid. And as an adult, you have a kinship created by a mutual love of these icons, which is why more than half of us here are still involved with them. In a way, they're our version of the mythological gods, but that may be overstating. We need the icons, and kids need the icons that, no matter the decade, have enthused them to become great artists, great writers, or great people.

Who is Lat, Steve? You put him side-by-side with some real giants of the comics form! Now I'm curious...