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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 28 August 2005 at 7:04pm | IP Logged | 1
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"To be frank, I resent the implication that I'm not a real comics fan
because I'm not willing to participate in some absurd and misguided
boosterism."
Then resent as much as you want, because all I see you participating is is defeatism.
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 28 August 2005 at 7:06pm | IP Logged | 2
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"So can we agree on this one : globally (couting everything and wherever
they're sold in USA, from Manga to Peanuts to Bendis to Doom Patrol to
Joe Matt and European imports) NO it's not in a bad shape. Really no."
You are changing the subject just to sound smart.
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Steve Lieber
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 July 2004
Posts: 295
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| Posted: 28 August 2005 at 7:08pm | IP Logged | 3
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John M. wrote:
" For instance, I've never been able to find a copy of
WHITEOUT, which has really pissed me off, since I do my best to collect
anything by people I knew at JKS. And I know about it."
Khepri Comics |
MarsImport |
Amazon.com | direct from me
Edited by Steve Lieber on 28 August 2005 at 7:14pm
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 28 August 2005 at 7:13pm | IP Logged | 4
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"Globalization
works both ways."
It's really not globalization - in the positive sense of the term -
when domestic businesses are decimated by outside competition ( or in
the case of American comics, domestic producers are killing
themselves.)
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Mike Tishman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 July 2005
Posts: 229
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| Posted: 28 August 2005 at 7:15pm | IP Logged | 5
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Joe Zhang wrote:
Then resent as much as you want, because all I see you
participating is is defeatism. |
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I'm not the one who's refusing to see that the comics industry as a whole
is not doing so badly, and that comics as a whole could survive the likely
demise of the mainstream American superhero comic. Your position is
the one which sees one part of the industry failing and equates that with
the sky falling. I'm the optimist here.
Joe Zhang wrote:
| You are changing the subject just to sound smart. |
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No, he's not. You're refusing to acknowledge that the scope of this
conversation should be larger than it has been, because the data from the
more limited set better suits your pessimistic viewpoint.
It seems like you want to believe that the comics industry as a whole
is in bad shape because the type of comics we like just aren't very
popular anymore, and you're attacking anyone who is either trying to look
at the bigger picture (David) or who don't care about whether or not the
stuff we like is popular (myself) as defeatist or elitist or what have you. It
really seems like you'd be happier to hear that the comics industry was
failing, then you would be to hear it was succeeding with comics you,
personally, didn't care for.
Edited by Mike Tishman on 28 August 2005 at 7:18pm
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John Mietus
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 9704
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| Posted: 28 August 2005 at 7:20pm | IP Logged | 6
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Thanks, Steve -- but do you at least see my point?
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 28 August 2005 at 7:22pm | IP Logged | 7
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" I could go on and on all day, naming great comics that for
whatever reason, you'll probably never seek out."
It's absolutely silly that comic pros are cedeing the high ground - the
child and young adult market - to foreign publishers while they
themselves are content with an aging , dwindling audience.
Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, Julius Schwartz, and many others sowed the seeds
for the coming of an adult audience that allows for adult-themed comics
to be produced. And who can blame today's creators for wanting to
produce sophisticated adult material. But no one is doing the grunt
work of entertaining the young readers of today, except the Japanese
Manga publishers. It goes to reason in the years ahead it will be
Japanese creators who will benefit most financially and creatively.
It's amazing that American pros are contemplating a future existing at
the margins of such a thing.
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 28 August 2005 at 7:25pm | IP Logged | 8
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"comics as a whole could survive the likely
demise of the mainstream American superhero comic."
likely under the dominance of Japanese and European publishers. That's optimism to you?
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David Blot
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 August 2005
Location: France
Posts: 858
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| Posted: 28 August 2005 at 7:28pm | IP Logged | 9
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Steve : "I think Donald Duck is comics as they were meant to be, too. And
Tintin. And Asterix. And Astro Boy. And Maus. And Zap. And City of Glass.
And Little Lulu. And Archie. And Fax from Sarajevo. And Black Hole. And
Louis Riel. And Mad. And Suspended in Language. And A Jew in
Communist Prague. And Slow News Day. And Peanuts. And Dick Tracy.
And Clyde Fans. And Blankets. And The Fixer. And A Contract With God.
And Love & Rockets. And Ice Haven. And Crime Suspensestories. And
Private Beach. And Journey. And From Hell. And The Interman. And Alvar
Mayor. And Road to Perdition. And Achewood. And Bone. And Ethel and
Ernest. I could go on and on all day, naming great comics that for
whatever reason, you'll probably never seek out.'
------------
What's cool in your list (I'm putting it once again for everybody to see -
and to check what they didnt read yet inside) is that there is comics for all
ages, from Disney to From Hell, to Asterix to Contract With God from
Bone to Love & Rockets, etc....
You know the slogan for Tintin "From readers from 7 to 77 !'
This how you keep the 'industry' healthy.
Super Hero - and especially the classic way to do it - is a 7 to 13 full time
gig and then you turn to girls or Penthouse.
Once again : I do love super hero comics, I read them all the time. But if
you want to be realistic and 'doomy' (?) here it is.
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Mike Tishman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 July 2005
Posts: 229
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| Posted: 28 August 2005 at 7:32pm | IP Logged | 10
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Joe Zhang wrote:
likely under the dominance of Japanese and European
publishers. That's optimism to you? |
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Sure, why not? I'm pretty pro-globalization and anti-nationalist. I really
don't favor American industry over European or Japanese industry, or
anyone else's. It's a global community, and loyalty to the nation-state is a
relic of the 20th century.
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David Blot
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 August 2005
Location: France
Posts: 858
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| Posted: 28 August 2005 at 7:33pm | IP Logged | 11
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BTW since 70 years + from Action Comics 1, I still doesnt see a lot of girls
buying super hero stuff.
So let's keep forgetting half of the possible audience and let's stay
between us. You know, the guys.
Not much chance of reproducing...
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David Blot
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 August 2005
Location: France
Posts: 858
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| Posted: 28 August 2005 at 7:35pm | IP Logged | 12
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Joe :"likely under the dominance of Japanese and European
publishers. That's optimism to you?"
--------------
Do not worry at least about European publishers, each time they tried to
come in the US they failed.
But at least they know how to sell in their own country :)
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