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Troy Nunis Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4598
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Posted: 25 August 2005 at 9:11pm | IP Logged | 1
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not to mention you'll NEVER grow a readership when their only entry point is $25 OGN vs. a 2.99 comic . . we just need to get the 2.99 comic back where new people can see it.
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David Blot Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 August 2005 Location: France Posts: 858
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Posted: 25 August 2005 at 9:13pm | IP Logged | 2
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Hollywood is an incredibly formidable competitor. French directors and
film people complain all the time about Hollywood's dominance over
world cinema. If Hollywood can stifle the local industries of foreign
countries, think about what it does to the entertainment market in
America.
I have to pay to read Love and Rockets. Friends is free on T.V. , and quite
frankly far more people can relate to it.
--------------------------
Of course Joe.
But you just forget that we DO have Friends and Lost and all the tv reality
all day long in France. (and the web, and cable tv, and video games and
mariah carey).
And mind you, some french directors put some horrible commercial
movies like (bad) hollywood does. Every Luc Besson production for
example. They're not all Alain Resnais stuff :)
So in fact the competition is stronger over here : we have your shit, we
have anime shit and we still manage to do our own ones.
And still, we read comic books like crazy, more than ever.
Mostly bad ones I have to say.
Again, we're not lucky as you are. but we make money.
If you want to switch, you're welcome :)
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David Blot Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 August 2005 Location: France Posts: 858
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Posted: 25 August 2005 at 9:17pm | IP Logged | 3
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Guys, I never said GN will save us comic book industry, neither that the
manga one will do that.
It just that there is other way to do it. Find a new one.
I never said either that we should condamn the comic book format (my
god, where should I spent my money if not on this ?), it just that in some
other places in the world, other formats work better. More formats, more
creativity, more money. Again, in France it used to sell in magazines (a bit
like comic book) now it is in GN.
So, who knows ?
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David Blot Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 August 2005 Location: France Posts: 858
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Posted: 25 August 2005 at 9:25pm | IP Logged | 4
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"not to mention you'll NEVER grow a readership when their only entry
point is $25 OGN vs. a 2.99 comic . . we just need to get the 2.99 comic
back where new people can see it. "
Again : Asterix & co cost around 12 euros (a bit more in $). It's not
monthly, there is around one a year. That the basic periodicty of a french
comic book. But there is tons of different series to be followed. You dont
buy 12 comic books a month, but 4 GN.
Also, a 2.50 comic book is not a gift. A US GN is a Christmas gift only,
because it is so expensive. A French GN is 12 euros gift. So it is common.
That is also the key ; in France (and in Europe) parents buy comics in GN
for their kids. And they read it too. Everybody read them at the end.
Just to show that there are solutions. And the better the solutions will be,
the longer the original comic book format that will love will stay.
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David Blot Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 August 2005 Location: France Posts: 858
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Posted: 25 August 2005 at 9:30pm | IP Logged | 5
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One great example I just bought today DENNIS THE MENACE by
Fantagraphics.
Superb format, incredible design, it is ART and it is POPULAR, it's 600
pages, and it cost 24.95 !
They will sell tons of that, like they do on Peanuts. (ok tons means
100 000 or something, but that is big and it is here for long).
That's Great. Bravo Fantagraphics.
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Lance Hill Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2005 Posts: 991
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Posted: 25 August 2005 at 9:46pm | IP Logged | 6
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"not to mention you'll NEVER grow a readership when their only entry point is $25 OGN vs. a 2.99 comic . . we just need to get the 2.99 comic back where new people can see it."
I know plenty of people who'd rather start with an ad-free $8-12 200 page digest than a $3 22 page comic.
I do think there is room for serialised comic magazines, I just don't think that 22 pages of content is the way to go.
Edited by Lance Hill on 25 August 2005 at 9:49pm
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Troy Nunis Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4598
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Posted: 25 August 2005 at 9:50pm | IP Logged | 7
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but you won't get an original matterial $8-12 200 pg digest, you can only do that if you've already near-broken-even with the monthly 22 page comic as a sales lead-in. the other option is to lead with a REALLLLLY expensive Hardback edition, and follow with a more economical trade later.
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Lance Hill Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2005 Posts: 991
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Posted: 25 August 2005 at 9:53pm | IP Logged | 8
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"but you won't get an original matterial $8-12 200 pg digest"
http://www.onipress.com/graphicnovels/gn.php?id=116
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David Blot Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 August 2005 Location: France Posts: 858
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Posted: 25 August 2005 at 10:02pm | IP Logged | 9
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Troy ; European GN : 44 or 62 pgs, abolutely no ads of course, slim
hardcover, nice paper, no jacket no 'bourgeois' sutff on it. ITS ALL
ORIGINAL No reprint. And its 12 euros.
A good example of how it could have been :
ASTONISHING X-MEN, 64 pages 3 a year. Massive diffusion, massive press
(like in France). I would have loved to see the sale results.
ULTIMATES or, WOLVERINE by John R Jr, would have also worked perfectly.
But that is one way, there must others too.
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Lance Hill Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2005 Posts: 991
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Posted: 25 August 2005 at 10:20pm | IP Logged | 10
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That's a very good format. How about if they were softocver though, and then once a year every 3 or 4 softcovers were collected into one hardcover volume?
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Victor Rodgers Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 December 2004 Posts: 3508
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Posted: 25 August 2005 at 10:43pm | IP Logged | 11
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QUOTE:
Am I supposed to care about manga, a form of comics art I find annoying and vapid? And yes, I'm an ignoramous about it, |
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Most people in this situation would just stay quiet. Of course im sure you've read plenty of manga, and haven't just watched part of a pokemon episode.
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Jeff Gillmer Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 August 2004 Location: United States Posts: 1920
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Posted: 25 August 2005 at 11:28pm | IP Logged | 12
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Coming to this late (darn work getting in the way again...)
There isn't any ONE thing that's brought the US comic industry to the place it is now. Direct marked distribution, I feel, is probably the main reason readership is declining. If "civilians" don't see the product, they can't buy it! It really is that simple.
When I first started going thru this thread, another thing that popped into my mind is what someone else brought up. "Art" Look folks, these are COMIC BOOKS. Pretty pictures and fantasy stories. That's it. Some of the drawing is breathtaking in either beauty or in how bad it is. I'm sure JB or Ethan will correct me if I'm wrong, but it's a job. Pure and simple. They might put more heart into a comic project than they would an illustration for a technical manual, but at the end of the day it's a paycheck for doing something they happen to love. Too many others in the business, both on the art and writing sides, seem to look at comics as a way to become a "rock star" or as a stepping stone to other media. You know the ones...they talk in their Wizard interviews about their books being late because Ribcrusher 3 was just released for the PS2. And yet, the comic media seems to worship these guys while looking on the true professionals (books out on time being a major consideration) with scorn.
Then, we have the people that don't look at comic books as disposable entertainment. These are the folks that rush to put everything into mylar or just go ahead and buy their books already slabbed. For Gods sake, what's the use of a book of any kind that you can not read??? This is the same mentality that had people buying 6 copies of X-Force #1 (one for each different trading card and one to maybe open and read). Thinking of comics as "collectables" instead of something to collect drove a lot of people from the fold. Exactly how much value is there on something there are millions copies of? If you look in many comic shops, these are worth about a quarter. Comic books are not, and should never be considered an investment.
In my opinion, most comics should be produced as cheap as possible, distributed to as many outlets as possible, and be save for readers of all ages. Leave the lesbian assassian comics to the comic shops, but I want to see spinner racks in convenience stores again. Let's find a way to get more people reading them in the first place, then they can discover the depth the industry can reach.
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