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Leroy Douresseaux Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 1657
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Posted: 20 June 2005 at 7:14am | IP Logged | 1
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But will it be a sequel that preserves the direction and tone of this movie, or will it be a sequel in which the suits at WB start sticking their noses in to "improve" the series and add elements they think will make it even more successful than "Begins"?
I can't help but worry that the suits are gonna feel that "Begins" would have had an even bigger opening if it been more kid-friendly and geared more for selling toys and Happy Meals.
Hope I'm wrong! I want to see this series continue as Nolan and Goyer designed it.
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Was there a time they didn't stick their noses in? The suits answer to stockholders not hardcore fans who have some notion that Batman should be all somber and literary-lite. And wouldn't it be the suits who allowed Nolan and Goyer's designs to exist? A movie that well exceeded $200 mil in production and marketing costs, not to mention the investment put into merchandising will certainly have executive hands on.
And what would be wrong with a more kid-friendly Batman movie?
Edited by Leroy Douresseaux on 20 June 2005 at 7:16am
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James C. Taylor Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4705
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Posted: 20 June 2005 at 7:19am | IP Logged | 2
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Leroy Douresseaux wrote:
And what would be wrong with a more kid-friendly Batman movie? |
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Nothing. It's what they think makes a movie kid friendly is the problem.
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Mike Sawin Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 December 2004 Location: United States Posts: 765
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Posted: 20 June 2005 at 7:37am | IP Logged | 3
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Leroy said, And what would be wrong with a more kid-friendly Batman movie?
Oh, come on Leroy! Everyone knows that kid-friendly movies never ever EVER make money! Oh, no. That's crazy talk, you know!
And besides, crazy ninja Batman is just much more interesting than any other incarnation of Batman. It's more realistic, you know. And we just have to have realism in our fantasy.
Crazy ninja, secret-assassin society Batman is so much more believable, so much more mature than a guy who overcomes grief and tries to help people by using his wealth, talent and intellect to help people.
Sheesh! The next thing you know, Leroy will want Batman to team up with a kid or something! How stupid would that be?
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Rob Hewitt Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 10182
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Posted: 20 June 2005 at 7:55am | IP Logged | 4
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I think that's an unfair characterization of Batman in the movie Mike.
Eric-I think people like Batman in the first three movies. They just didn't like the last one. But I agree that to expect a movie that has had 4 recent versions to do as well as a newer series, ala Spider-man or X-men, is a bit silly (unless it's Star Wars).
But the budget on this is pretty high. $120 million. Then marketing. Of course with international box office and DVDs, it will make plenty of money. But I think its look and tone is not "kid friendly" which could be less repeat business. On the other hand, school is out all over by the end of next week. So it probably won't drop the way some others have. And it is a pretty weak year at the movies. And don't forget toys-if it sells a ton of toys, that helps too.
Edited by Rob Hewitt on 20 June 2005 at 8:01am
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Casey Sager Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 750
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Posted: 20 June 2005 at 7:58am | IP Logged | 5
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Mike Sawin wrote:
Leroy said, And what would be wrong with a more kid-friendly Batman movie?
Oh, come on Leroy! Everyone knows that kid-friendly movies never ever EVER make money! Oh, no. That's crazy talk, you know!
And besides, crazy ninja Batman is just much more interesting than any other incarnation of Batman. It's more realistic, you know. And we just have to have realism in our fantasy.
Crazy ninja, secret-assassin society Batman is so much more believable, so much more mature than a guy who overcomes grief and tries to help people by using his wealth, talent and intellect to help people.
Sheesh! The next thing you know, Leroy will want Batman to team up with a kid or something! How stupid would that be?
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I agree with pretty much all of the above. That said...I did enjoy the movie...as a decent action movie and I like a lot of the actors involved. As far as representing Batman...not even close to Batman: TAS..IMHO.
Casey
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Zaki Hasan Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 8105
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Posted: 20 June 2005 at 8:21am | IP Logged | 6
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Rob Hewitt wrote:
and now some the buzz is that Batman is a disappointment, which can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/news/2005-06-19-box-offi ce-analysis_x.htm
quotes from the article
- solid if unspectacular $46.9 million
- Batman fell $10 million short of the most conservative expectations
- But by comparison, Mr. & Mrs. Smith performed better from Friday-Sunday a week ago.
- and some predicted it would compete with Star Wars, Episode III: Revenge of the Sith, which has taken in $347.8 million
- Analysts now wonder whether Batman can recoup its $135 million budget in domestic ticket sales
- The film's less-than-stellar debut
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I wonder if it's coincidental that USATODAY was less-than-glowing in its review of BATMAN BEGINS?
Here's what's interesting about the opening. It fell right into
line with the other openings in the series, which is important to note
because to the world at large, this is movie number five in a 16 year
old series. Any expectation that it would compete with REVENGE OF
THE SITH seems ridiculous, considering even the first film in '89
didn't do that kind of business, and it was the number one movie of
that year. All three sequels did between 100 and 200 million.
Not just that, but the five-day and opening weekend pattern of BATMAN
BEGINS follows the EXACT same pattern as PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN,
with both films taking in 71 mil for the Wed-Fri window and 47 mil for the Fri-Sun
window. Additionally, they both carried budgets of
135-140 mil, and they both received glowing reviews (PIRATES: 80% on
RottenTomatoes.com, BATMAN: 82%). Word of mouth eventually
powered PIRATES to 300+ million, so here's hoping BATMAN continues to
follow a similar pattern.
To start tossing off comments like "We wonder if the movie will recoup
its budget," just seems like shoddy journalism to me on the part of
USATODAY.
Edited by Zaki Hasan on 20 June 2005 at 8:24am
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Rob Hewitt Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 10182
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Posted: 20 June 2005 at 8:28am | IP Logged | 7
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Maybe, but Pirates was not necessarily an anticipated movie-it was being derided for being based on a ride-and only later did it get recognized for being FUN. I don';t think Batman can be called FUN. It isn't as kid friendly. And Batman is not an unknown property that should need time to grow. Pirates was. and when was the last time people were excited about a Pirates movie-its time had come. Whereas, people have already seen several Batman movies.
Just as shoddy are the ones who say it had the "greatest opening" of any Batamn film, without taking into account (1) inflation and (2) the fact that the majority of big budget films today take a huge chunk of their box office in the first week, and are effectively gone 4-6 weeks later. That wasn't necessaruly true for the time of the first few Batman movies.
Next week will help tell the tale.
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Zaki Hasan Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 8105
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Posted: 20 June 2005 at 8:38am | IP Logged | 8
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Saw this on Dark Horizons. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm going to be watching those mid-week grosses like a hawk:
Will "Batman Begins"
launch a sequel? One of Warner Bros. key behind-the-scenes agendas in
the last two years has been to re-establish their "Batman" and
"Superman" tentpole franchises. Its a risky manuever - despite the
mega-success of the "Spider-Man" franchise, and to a lesser extent the
"X-Men" movies, the comic book to film genre seems to be on the wane with a lot of high profile properties
crashing and burning in the last two years whilst others like
"Fantastic Four" and "X3" struggle to overcome early bad word of mouth.
Indeed Warners took some bold chances with "Batman Begins", the gambit
has paid off - kind of. After a low-key marketing approach in the early
stages, Warners ramped it right up this past week with an international
launch. Yet despite faring better so far than any other film in the
franchise and earning a healthy and very respectable $71 million in its
first five days domestically, the figure is being labelled by pundits
as under expectation. All sorts of reasons are being spouted such as
people being burned by the last few Batman movies, the more adult dark
tone of the material keeping kids away, mixed reactions from some of
the die-hard comic purists, and the good weather in general.
Its not a local trend either with film opening well but being beaten
out by the more crowd-friendly "Madagascar" which it opened against
this weekend in a number of key territories like Australia. Even with
the diffusion caused by the Wednesday-Thursday opening, the criticism
comes despite the film's Friday-Sunday total being the third highest
domestic opening of the year just behind the more tabloid and
female-friendly "Mr. and Mrs. Smith" and the promotional blitzkrieg
that was "Star Wars: Episode III".
In its favour though it has become the most positively reviewed wide
release film of the year so far and the third most well reviewed comic
book adaptation of all time after 1978's "Superman" and last year's "Spider-Man 2". A quick scan of Rotten Tomatoes
shows the four most well received major films of 2005 at present to be
"Batman Begins," "Cinderella Man," "Millions," and "Star Wars: Episode
III" with each scoring well over 80% in terms of positive reviews. Of
those four, 'Batman' garnered the highest average score from reviewers
with a 7.7/10 (SW3 = 7.3/10, Millions = 7.5/10, Cinderella Man =
7.6/10). Paradoxically whilst there's a lot of love (see the various reviews), there's a handful of moderate to high profile reviews of near hatred ranging from major newspapers like USA Today to websites like CHUD.
The question though might be rendered mute by how the film performs in
the next few weeks. Two other films with almost the exact same opening
five-day take are "Pirates of the Caribbean" and "Hulk"
- the former went on to become a major $300+ million domestic hit
whilst the later is generally considered a minor bomb with a $131
million final gross. The general buzz for "Batman" whilst not near
"Pirates" territory, leans far more towards it than the quite negative
buzz which quickly emerged for "Hulk". Whilst it might not have hit the
ball out of the park, 'Begins' has scored enough of a home run for the
studio that Warner Bros. distribution boss Dan Fellman told The Hollywood Reporter that the film has landed enough so far that he expects the studio will push ahead with a sequel.
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Rob Hewitt Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 10182
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Posted: 20 June 2005 at 8:44am | IP Logged | 9
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We will have to see. I don't think the Warner Bros' distribution boss they keep quoting to be the most impartial source. But i don't want to be the offical Batman buzzkill of the JB forum.
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James C. Taylor Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4705
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Posted: 20 June 2005 at 8:52am | IP Logged | 10
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Rob Hewitt wrote:
But I don't want to be the offical Batman buzzkill of the JB forum. |
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Too late. It's official.
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Rob Hewitt Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 10182
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Posted: 20 June 2005 at 8:56am | IP Logged | 11
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:(
Heck, I liked the movie. 7, maybe 8, out of ten. And i loved Bale.
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Matt Reed Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 36132
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Posted: 20 June 2005 at 10:00am | IP Logged | 12
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You're doing everything in your power to slam it from your "industry watchtower" high above Manhattan, Rob.
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