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Greg McPhee Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 25 August 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 5159
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Posted: 22 August 2025 at 1:37pm | IP Logged | 1
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I know it divides some people, but I always felt that Gene Hackman's Lex Luthor in Superman: The Movie was just evil for being evil once you took some of the dressing off.
Sure, he seemed like he just wanted a real estate empire, yet you just have to look at how he wanted to achieve that and his whole ethos was summed up in this exchange:
Superman: "Is that how a warped brain like yours gets its kicks? By planning the death of innocent people?"
Luthor: "No, by causing the death of innocent people."
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 135120
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Posted: 22 August 2025 at 1:41pm | IP Logged | 2
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Even there, the filmmakers felt the need to backstory Luthor with the suggestion his father had thrown him out when he was only six years old.
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Greg McPhee Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 25 August 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 5159
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Posted: 22 August 2025 at 4:05pm | IP Logged | 3
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We do seem to have developed a habit of giving villains a “sympathetic” backstory or some element of such in their pasts to give justification to their actions.
This has become very prevalent with Batman villains over the last 30 - 35 years. I think it works with characters like Two-Face and, after the great revision by B:TAS for Mister Freeze. Other Batman villains should just be complete evil or thieving b@stards.
I’m really at a loose end to think of the last time there was a villain who was just out and out evil with no sympathetic shades in their background / origin.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 135120
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Posted: 22 August 2025 at 4:08pm | IP Logged | 4
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Giving Harvey Dent a pre-existing MPD condition turns a tragic event into a staggering coincidence.
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Greg McPhee Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 25 August 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 5159
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Posted: 22 August 2025 at 8:45pm | IP Logged | 5
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Giving Harvey Dent a pre-existing MPD condition turns a tragic event into a staggering coincidence.
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That's one aspect that never sat well with me. I f Harvey is already suffering from mental health issues, and commits crimes before he becomes Two-Face, then it really erodes the tragedy and sympathy you should have for the character, and negates stories (pre this revelation) where he tried to rebuild his previous life.
Much as I hold B:TAS in high regard, Big Bad Harv was one of the few missteps they really made.
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William Costello Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 30 August 2012 Location: United States Posts: 774
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Posted: 22 August 2025 at 11:18pm | IP Logged | 6
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JOHN BYRNE: "As I pointed out at the time, Roger had had Egghead shot with a RAY GUN. So keeping in mind that this was comics, I said it was all a set-up by Egghead. The blast from the ray gun altered his atomic structure, so when the body was cremated it was turned into Instant Egghead. When the ashes were thrown into the sea they reconstituted! Nobody dies forever!"
When I read this comment, I was reminded on the Bugs Bunny / Marvin Martian cartoon where both characters are on Mars, and there's a gumball machine: "10,000 Instant Martians - Just Add Water."
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Bob Harvey Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 19 November 2014 Location: United States Posts: 236
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Posted: 23 August 2025 at 1:10am | IP Logged | 7
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(The Doom Patrol's traditional archvillains were the Brotherhood of Evil - originally comprised of Monsieur Mallah&The Brain, Madame Rouge, and General Immortus. I hope this is as well-received as my note on the Shadow Thief. 😄)
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 135120
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Posted: 23 August 2025 at 11:41am | IP Logged | 8
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…Madame Rouge…••• While I was working on DOOM PATROL I referenced Madame Rouge in a conversation with a DC editor. (Not the DP editor.) “You mean Madame ROGUE,” he said. I pointed to the spelling in WHO’S WHO. He was dumbfounded. For forty years he’d been reading it wrong.
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Brian Miller Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 28 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 31760
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Posted: 23 August 2025 at 1:31pm | IP Logged | 9
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Did you also point out how cool the art was for her entry in WHO’S WHO?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 135120
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Posted: 23 August 2025 at 1:39pm | IP Logged | 10
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That was self evident!
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