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ron bailey
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 October 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 1115
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| Posted: 31 December 2024 at 5:33pm | IP Logged | 1
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I remember just becoming aware of European and Latin American comics as a teen and being horrified that seldom if ever were the creators' names mentioned for some truly remarkable work!
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Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2398
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| Posted: 31 December 2024 at 5:36pm | IP Logged | 2
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It was always half characters and half creators for me. Even as a little kid, I was perturbed that RICHIE RICH and ARCHIE (mostly) didn't show who wrote and drew the stories.
This tradition goes all the way back to the earliest newspaper comic strips, which so many early comic creators say were their inspiration.
Not giving creator credit reeks of trying to pull a fast one on "dumb kids."
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 31 December 2024 at 6:17pm | IP Logged | 3
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Hollywood started out not using credits. I think it was Jack Warner who expressed disbelief that anyone would “want to know actors names.”Fans did manage to track down names, and write letters to favorite stars. The sheer volume of these convinced studios there was a market to exploit. By the time I got into comics, credits were firmly established—tho in one of my earliest credits I was almost “John Bryne”. I happened to be visiting the Office when the finished book came thru, and caught it.
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Peter Martin
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Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 01 January 2025 at 1:11am | IP Logged | 4
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For movies, credits were not that important to me until some time in late 1988 or early 1989, when I had seen an print advert for Slipstream and it said 'From the producer of Star Wars' which got my attention. And then at school, a friend of mine told me about a different film (Willow) that was from 'the guy that did Star Wars'. Pretty much from then onward I resolved to know who did what when it came to movies.
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Peter Hicks
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Joined: 30 April 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1998
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| Posted: 01 January 2025 at 1:24am | IP Logged | 5
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JB - Did you arrive at Marvel in time to be given a credits nickname, like Jack “The King” Kirby, or had that ended?
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David Miller
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Joined: 16 April 2004
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| Posted: 01 January 2025 at 1:59am | IP Logged | 6
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Vinny Valenti wrote:
| I know that kids weren't meant to know about how the sausage was made, but it became pretty damn clear to me even then that there was something fishy about the guy with Editor-In-Chief credits (and the voice of the Marvel Bullpen Bulletins) getting the writing gig for these two major series. |
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Jim Shooter wrote:
When time came to actually do it, I realized that only I could write it. I was busy enough being Editor in Chief, I didn’t need the additional burden and we didn’t have a shortage of writers, but...
...Allowing any one of the writers to handle pretty much everyone else’s characters in Secret Wars, contemplated to be the biggest, most continuity-intensive crossover ever done, would have led to bloodshed in the hallowed halls.
So, I wrote it. As Editor in Chief, by definition, I was the company’s designated Keeper of the Franchises, and the ordained Absolute Authority on the characters — all part of the job, at least back then. |
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I love Shooter's confidence in his self-serving logic. It was all about Marvel's creators being territorial jackals, and the insanity royalties on the table were just a coincidence.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 01 January 2025 at 1:59am | IP Logged | 7
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Chris tagged me as Jarring John Byrne, which Roger Stern, as editor, changed to Jocular. (Rog also wasted a lot of energy trying to convince Chris that “Cheerful” did have the right sound and “Charismatic” would be better.)
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: 01 January 2025 at 2:03am | IP Logged | 8
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…Secret Wars, contemplated to be the biggest, most continuity-intensive crossover ever done…••• Again, no. Originally “contemplated” as nothing more than a way to sell toys.
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Brian Miller
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| Posted: 01 January 2025 at 3:14am | IP Logged | 9
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It was all about Marvel's creators being territorial jackals, and the insanity
royalties on the table were just a coincidence.
******
Not trying to defend him, but there wasn’t really any way to know what
royalties would be beforehand, right?
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Jason Scott
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Joined: 06 August 2012
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Posts: 1179
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| Posted: 01 January 2025 at 8:51am | IP Logged | 10
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"He seemed to really like Spider-Man in Secret Wars, showing him pretty much effortlessly trouncing the X-Men*, easily knocking out Piledriver, and running rings around Titania. Outside of Secret Wars, did he ever write Spider-Man again?
I though his Doctor Doom was pretty decent too - intelligent, proud, and ambitious."
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Steven Brake-If you liked Shooter's Spider-Man and Doctor Doom you should read the second Superman Spider-Man Treasury edition crossover. As he writes both of them in that.
I really liked his Doom too, though sometimes I wonder if his alleged giant ego helped him identify with that character. ;)
*P.S I remembering wonder if Chris Claremont got a little peeved at that. Spidey's jibe to Wolverine as he knocks him into next week where he says;- "Those pig stickers may scare the bar room bullies, but to me you're a joke!" does raise a chuckle. But it could be argued it's a bit disrespectful and dismissive of Logan.
Having said that, I'll admit I don't mind it. As I've often felt Spidey's unique power set puts him significantly above the more street level characters. I mean enhanced speed, strength, reflexes and an early warning system? He's kind of in a class of his own.
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Eric White
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Joined: 17 October 2006
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| Posted: 01 January 2025 at 7:48pm | IP Logged | 11
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I liked Shooter's first so go around at DC and his Avengers run. That three-parter with JB penciling was fantastic. I thought Secret Wars was terrible.
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ron bailey
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 October 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 1115
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| Posted: 01 January 2025 at 8:00pm | IP Logged | 12
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In addition to agreeing with all the other comments made here about Secret Wars, I remember being annoyed by how rushed/unfinished the issues seemed to be, and I was a huge fan of Mike Zeck's work from Master of Kung Fu..
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