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Scott Gray
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2012
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 45
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| Posted: 06 December 2024 at 5:36pm | IP Logged | 1
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Mark Haslett: I yearn for the corporate voice on high telling everyone at the company to get in line and cooperate on a single, recognizable version of every character so that the illusion of a "real" Spider-Man/Superman/etc. can return.
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That wouldn't be sensible for a number of reasons, but even if it was - isn't it a far more exciting prospect if creators are able to take the big characters in any direction they choose, whenever they want to, in whatever format they like?
Superman, Batman, Mickey Mouse, Captain America etc should all have become public property long ago.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 06 December 2024 at 5:52pm | IP Logged | 2
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…isn't it a far more exciting prospect if creators are able to take the big characters in any direction they choose, whenever they want to, in whatever format they like?••• When I started reading American superhero comics, circa 1958, Superman and Batman were little changed from what they’d been decades earlier. DC was able to publish “annuals” containing stories from years before, and very few readers recognized them as reprints. In the decades since DC let the genii out of the bottle, with the likes of MAN OF STEEL and YEAR ONE, abandoning decades of established lore—accidentally in the case of that second series—has become SOP. Stunts designed to fool gullible collectors have seen characters become wildly inconsistent and sometimes unrecognizable. Knowing who the characters were from month to month was an important part of bringing the readers back. The song was more important than the singer.
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Scott Gray
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2012
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 45
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| Posted: 06 December 2024 at 6:26pm | IP Logged | 3
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My argument is that these characters are large enough and rich enough to still be recognisable with all sorts of interpretations. Batman done by Bill Finger, John Byrne, Dick Sprang, Adam West, Tim Burton, Neal Adams, Frank Miller or Paul Pope are all very different animals, but they're all still Batman.
I like the fact that I can enjoy Steven Moffat's take on Sherlock Holmes, but also Michael Chabon's take. And also Billy Wilder's, Jonny Lee Miller's, Basil Rathbone's, Nicholas Meyer's, Jeremy Brett's, etc.
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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
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| Posted: 06 December 2024 at 6:28pm | IP Logged | 4
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Not only do I agree with what has just been said by our host, I really find it
baffling that fans of these characters can disagree.
I know, however that a great deal of this depends on what was happening in
comics when they became important to you. If the constant reboots and
wild variety of characterization feels attractive, then I would guess there
was a lot of that already happening when you got into comics.
But the only certain outcome of having these characters available in any
form that any creator feels interested in doing is the loss of the illusion that
any version can be “real”. Public Domain versions just accelerate a process
of destruction that begins when the owners of the character stop protecting
the integrity of the original idea.
Tarzan went down this chute long ago. More recent victims are Star Wars
and Star Trek and, honestly, everything at Marvel and D.C.
I don’t really see the owners of these properties protecting them now, but
making them all Public Domain will not in any way make the situation better
from my perspective as a fan.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: 06 December 2024 at 6:47pm | IP Logged | 5
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Occasionally, a civilian will ask who’s my favorite character. When I was 10 I would have said Batman without hesitation. A few years later I would have leaned more toward Captain America. But today? If I say, “Batman”, which one do I mean? Obviously for me, I mean the guy I met in 1958, and to whom I was reintroduced in the early Seventies. Pretty much the same guy, disparate art styles notwithstanding. But to someone not immersed in the lore? Do I mean Michael Keaton? Christian Bale? Ben Affleck? Robert Pattinson? All called Batman, but all very different.
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Brian Rhodes
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
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| Posted: 06 December 2024 at 7:20pm | IP Logged | 6
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And it also fans the fires of toxic fandom. Ostensible gatekeepers that declare someone else is not a "real" fan if they do or do not like certain versions of that character.
With movies, it can be tough. Actors age, die, or otherwise move on from certain characters so that if further projects are to be undertaken, someone else must step into the role.
With comics, though, aging doesn't have to be an issue (though it certainly has reared its ugly, wrinkly head unnecessarily). Characters can remain consistent, including their appearance. There don't have to be multiple and/or wildly different versions of characters to fight about (except in the realm of adaptation in other media).
Edited by Brian Rhodes on 06 December 2024 at 7:20pm
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Eric Jansen
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| Posted: 06 December 2024 at 9:10pm | IP Logged | 7
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The artist in me thinks the creators should retain rights forever._______________________
Yeah, that's where I lean. A farmer builds a farm and can pass it down to his children, then grandchildren, etc. Or a store owner. A carpenter can make twenty chairs and just decide to keep them--they could stay in the family for hundreds of years. Why should Frank Miller's SIN CITY (just to grab something out of the air) suddenly be given away for nothing at some point?
We are seeing slasher movies of WINNIE THE POOH the moment he fell into public domain, and I guess a killer MICKEY MOUSE is coming too. Do we really think that society at large will take better care of Mickey than Disney would?
I mean, it makes sense that things that are 200 or 300 years old like DRACULA or FRANKENSTEIN are in the public domain, but TARZAN, SHERLOCK HOLMES, and CONAN are clearly business ventures that are still viable and connected to the creator's estate.
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Bill Dowling
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| Posted: 06 December 2024 at 10:41pm | IP Logged | 8
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Sherlock Holmes’ first story came out a decade before DRACULA.
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Eric Jansen
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| Posted: 06 December 2024 at 10:47pm | IP Logged | 9
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Ah yes, I was thinking that Dracula was older for some reason. Interesting that Marvel did comics in the 70's and everybody seems free to do whatever movies they want, since at least the 40's. How did Dracula get "free" so early while his contemporaries have been much more protected?
Edited by Eric Jansen on 06 December 2024 at 10:48pm
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Peter Martin
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| Posted: 06 December 2024 at 11:49pm | IP Logged | 10
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Dracula never got copyrighted properly in the States, at least according to whoever was in charge of deciding US copyright at the time.
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Steve Coates
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| Posted: 07 December 2024 at 12:48am | IP Logged | 11
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Copyright and its protection does vary from country to country. The US has a Fair Use Statute, which many Canadians believe applies to them. Although similar, it is far more strict and narrow and very rarely applies to an individual's use of copyrighted material.
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Scott Gray
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2012
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Posts: 45
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| Posted: 07 December 2024 at 10:04am | IP Logged | 12
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Peter Martin: Dracula never got copyrighted properly in the States, at least according to whoever was in charge of deciding US copyright at the time.
**********
A question for everyone on this thread: would you have preferred it if the copyright on Dracula has been tightly held onto by Bram Stoker's estate to the present day, and 98% of the Dracula stories we've seen and read were never made?
Edited by Scott Gray on 07 December 2024 at 10:05am
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