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Steven Brake
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Posted: 26 November 2024 at 2:20pm | IP Logged | 1  

@Mark: See "On The Hall-Marston Controversy" by E.A Beckwith, and "A Critical Sense Worthy of Respect”: John Marston and the Early Poetics of Robert Penn Warren" by John C Van Dyke. There's more, but, as I've posted above, it's pretty much universally accepted Hall and Marston quarrelled with each other (with the latter feeling he'd been insulted by the former). 

It's also interesting to note that while you're making so much of a quibble you're unwilling - unable? - to address a point. If Hall knew the truth behind the supposed authorship of Shakespeare (or "Shakespeare", if you'd prefer), why did he make it so cryptically when both De Vere and Will were alive, but say nothing at all in the years, decades, even, after both men had died?
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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 26 November 2024 at 7:20pm | IP Logged | 2  

I pointed out that Joseph Hall in 1597 identified Venus & Adonis and Lucrece as the work of a hidden poet.

You replied that “It’s pretty much universally agreed that Hall was referring to Marston.”

So I provided you with the entirety of mainstream Stratfordian literature on the topic, authors and books. I pointed out that, actually, it is universally agreed that Hall is NOT referring to Marston. Furthermore, half of the published literature agrees that Hall IS referring to Shakespeare.

Now you post in reply with two truly obscure papers. Neither discusses the Shakespeare evidence. One is from 1926 and the other is actually an analysis of Robert Penn Warren’s forgotten and unpublished grad paper.

But these are supposed to back up your now revised statement that “as I've posted above, it's pretty much universally accepted Hall and Marston quarreled with each other (with the latter feeling he'd been insulted by the former).”

That is a very different and totally irrelevant point which no one disputes. It's not where we're discussing. At all.

But this is exactly how you always operate.

If you had the “near universal” knowledge you claim, then you’d know the answer to your own question.

Hall stopped writing Satyres and never referred to the allegations in them again because he came under the fierce scrutiny of the Bishop’s ban. He was outed for writing these scandalous satyres which he (ironically) wanted to keep anonymous. He never returned to this form after being identified as the author to his strict puritan community. His “quarrel” with Marston is carried on in Marston’s work where, among many points, Marston confirms that Hall was identifying Venus & Adonis as the work of a hidden poet.

But you lie, misrepresent, quote mine, ignore my arguments, and just keep repeating your arguments no matter how many times they get refuted. Over and over again, with massive word-walls that just don’t address what I’m talking about. Straw man. Ad hominems. Any logical fallacy you want to name will come in through your posts to derail any point you want to avoid. It’s exhausting, repetitive and inevitable.

Every one of these threads decays into the orbit of how obviously Steven Brake refuses to engage in good faith.

Troll on, Steven.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 26 November 2024 at 7:45pm | IP Logged | 3  

Any time you weary of fighting the good fight, Mark, I can lock this thread.
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Steven Brake
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Posted: 26 November 2024 at 7:51pm | IP Logged | 4  

Mark Haslett wrote: So I provided you with the entirety of mainstream Stratfordian literature on the topic, authors and books. 

SB replied: "Entirety"? You gave two names. So essentially, while some Alternative Authorship theorists argue that Hall was hinting at "Shakespeare's" true identity, it is not widely accepted. Correct?

Mark Haslett wrote: But you lie, misrepresent, quote mine, ignore my arguments, and just keep repeating your arguments no matter how many times they get refuted. Over and over again, with massive word-walls that just don’t address what I’m talking about. 

SB replied: That is one astonishingly black pot. :)

Why did De Vere feel it necessary to hide his authorship of Venus & Adonis? 

Why did Hall cryptically allude to the true identity of Shakespeare rather than simply say it? 

Why did he say nothing at all decades after both men had died?

If the plays were written in collaboration - as you've earlier conceded they were - why did none of De Vere's collaborators, or their heirs, tell the truth about the real author after he was dead, and any supposed danger in revealing the truth had died with him?
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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 26 November 2024 at 7:53pm | IP Logged | 5  

I guess it's that time again, thank you for saving me from myself.

(I can't believe it! John Byrne typed my name!)
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Steven Brake
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Posted: 26 November 2024 at 7:58pm | IP Logged | 6  

Interestingly, one of the words Shakespeare is sometimes credited as having invented is "critic", which can be interpreted as meaning "one who judges merit or expresses a reasoned opinion". 

It's a shame that couldn't have been the case here.



Edited by Steven Brake on 26 November 2024 at 8:03pm
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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 26 November 2024 at 8:24pm | IP Logged | 7  

World’s biggest face-palm emoji here.
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