Byrne Robotics: Human Torch over the years...

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Topic: Human Torch over the years...

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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 05 September 2024 at 6:06pm \| IP Logged \| 1	post reply

I was thinking about the Human Torch today and wondered how Stan Lee/Marvel comics jumped to the conclusion that Johnny Storm could carry his own comic book (Strange Tales) shortly after Fantastic Four #1. I would assume the answer is that Stan Lee knew there had been a successful Human Torch comic before. And I was wondering why it didn't last.

My earliest comic collector impulses were boosted by "All In Color For A Dime"-- a book about the early days of comics. It was there that I got my first exposure to the wild covers and stories from war-time Timely/Marvel comics and the "golden age" Human Torch.

And WOW was that Human Torch cool! He could fly and he melted through submarines and vault doors and guns and you name it! Somehow, in that context, those feats are REALLY cool.

But, in the universe that Lee and Kirby created around their new Human Torch, I think those things are still cool, but don't feel the same as they used to.

I'm not sure why. I can guess, but I'm not able to settle my mind on a great explanation.

Any thoughts?

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John Byrne
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Posted: 05 September 2024 at 6:15pm \| IP Logged \| 2	post reply

Stan probably assumed the Torch would be the breakout star, not guessing that would be the Thing.

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Michael Penn
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Posted: 05 September 2024 at 7:26pm \| IP Logged \| 3	post reply

Is it possible that the positive reception to a teen superhero in AMAZING FANTASY #15 led Stan Lee to consider giving another teen superhero a solo gig? I don't know if the publication timing would support that. Perhaps just having already had the idea for solo stories with a different teen superhero inspired Stan to try it with Johnny Storm?

I wonder if Stan would ever have thought of the 1962 version of Ben Grimm as the type of character who could carry his own vehicle.

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Robert Bradley
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Posted: 05 September 2024 at 7:44pm \| IP Logged \| 4	post reply

Also, the series started out with the big name creators - Lee & Kirby, but soon was given to writers Larry Lieber, Robert Bernstein, Ernie Hart, and Joe Carter (Jerry Siegal) and artists Lieber and Dick Ayers. The villains (such as Paste Pot Pete, the Wizard, Xemu, the Eel, Plantman and the Beetle) weren't as interesting or were just bad (the Asbestos Man, the Painter of a Thousand Perils, the Rabble Rouser, and the Terrible Trio), and the stories just weren't as good.

They didn't totally give up on Johnny though. He was given quarterly issues of Marvel Team-up when that series started in 1972, but after a few years he was phased out there too.

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Doug Centers
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Posted: 05 September 2024 at 9:32pm \| IP Logged \| 5	post reply

I'd also have to lean towards the "teen hero" argument.

A fair run tho, just about 3 years (34 issues). But, as JB alluded to, he needed Thing in those last few issues to try give him a boost.

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Robbie Moubert
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Posted: 06 September 2024 at 1:23am \| IP Logged \| 6	post reply

QUOTE:

Amazing Fantasy 15 went on sale in June 1962. The Torch's solo series began in Strange Tales 101 which was on sale in July.

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Craig Earl
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Posted: 06 September 2024 at 6:55pm \| IP Logged \| 7	post reply

The Torch is my favourite FF member. The Strange Tales solo stories were fun but forgettable (FYI, they are collected in The Essential Human Torch B&W). Johnny and Ben's dynamic was great, but I really enjoyed the interaction with the Torch and She-Hulk too.

It's no surprise (to me) that two of my favourite FF's under JB's tenure are 233 and 285.

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Doug Centers
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Posted: 06 September 2024 at 9:05pm \| IP Logged \| 8	post reply

They tried again with the Torch on the next generation of us kids in the mid seventies. They were all reprints (which didn't matter to me), and had an Original Human Torch reprint also. But it was the covers that sold me on a couple of issues. My ten year old self could not resist that cover with Sub-Mariner battling the Torch!

Edited by Doug Centers on 06 September 2024 at 9:06pm

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Robert Bradley
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Posted: 06 September 2024 at 9:39pm \| IP Logged \| 9	post reply

Doug - I don't think that was much of an effort to establish him in his own title again, that's when Marvel was flooding the market with product and reprinting all of their early stories (Doctor Strange might have been the only early hero not in reprints at the time).

Johnny has only starred in a handful of series and other than STRANGE TALES, all for fairly brief runs -

STRANGE TALES #101-134 (1962-1965)
MARVEL TEAM-UP #18-35 (1972-1975)

BEFORE THE FANTASTIC FOUR - THE STORMS #1-3 (2000-2001)

HUMAN TORCH #1-12 (2003-2004)

SPIDER-MAN/HUMAN TORCH #1-5 (2005)

He appeared in every 4th issue of MARVEL TEAM-UP. His other appearances in MTU were co-starring with Spider-Man.

THE STORMS and SPIDER-MAN/HUMAN TORCH were both limited series. I don't recall if the 2003 series was a limited series or not.

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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 06 September 2024 at 9:58pm \| IP Logged \| 10	post reply

It�s slightly interesting that Stan and Jack resisted going back to the
�natural enemies� ongoing rivalry that Namor and the original Human Torch
thrived on.

Of course they were batting 1000 at that time, I just wonder what wisdom
prevailed to keep them from �going there.� Some version of �never give fans
what they think they want� perhaps.

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Doug Centers
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Posted: 06 September 2024 at 11:30pm \| IP Logged \| 11	post reply

"- I don't think that was much of an effort to establish him in his own title again..."

...

Yeah, you're probably right Bradley.

Dr. Strange did end up with reprints in Strange Tales of that time. I got a couple of those too :-)

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Robert Bradley
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Posted: 07 September 2024 at 3:37am \| IP Logged \| 12	post reply

That's true. I forgot he was in STRANGE TALES when Adam Warlock got his own title again.

Avengers - MARVEL TRIPLE ACTION

Captain America/Iron Man - MARVEL DOUBLE FEATURE

Daredevil - MARVEL ADVENTURES

Dr. Droom/Dr. Druid - WEIRD WONDER TALES

Doctor Strange - STRANGE TALES

Fantastic Four - MARVEL'S GREATEST COMICS

Hulk - MARVEL SUPER-HEROES

Human Torch - HUMAN TORCH

Namor - TALES TO ASTONISH

Nick Fury - S.H.I.E.L.D.

Silver Surfer - FANTASY MASTERPIECES

Spider-Man - MARVEL TALES

Thor - MARVEL SPECTACULAR

X-Men - AMAZING ADVENTURES

Ant-Man/Giant-Man was left out, as was Tales of the Watcher. Kid Colt, the Rawhide Kid and the Two-Gun Kid were all being reprinted in their own titles. And Marvel was reprinting lot of their old Science Fiction, Horror and Monster Pre-FF #1 stories.

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