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Casey Sager
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 749
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| Posted: 08 November 2024 at 7:34pm | IP Logged | 1
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Jason - That would be deflation which would mean we're in a recession.
It's amazing to me how many Americans don't understand how the economy works or how the levers of power in our government work...like at all.
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Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4649
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| Posted: 08 November 2024 at 7:34pm | IP Logged | 2
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John Wickett wrote:
She lacks charisma and has difficulty connecting with audiences- does poorly in interviews.
She struggled to clearly articulate a vision and a plan for the future of the country.
Her core message was too divisive
Her policy proposals were lame |
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Considering her opponent did markedly worse in all of the above categories (running one of the worst presidential campaigns in US history) I think an argument can be made that the above factors just didn't matter much to voters this time around.
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Dave Kopperman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3475
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| Posted: 08 November 2024 at 8:06pm | IP Logged | 3
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The one thing I could agree with is that Trump actually DOES have charisma. He's an incredibly charismatic man. As all autocrats must be.
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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 31309
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| Posted: 08 November 2024 at 8:25pm | IP Logged | 4
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I sell the things you need to be
I'm the smiling face on your TV
Oh, I'm the cult of personality
I exploit you, still you love me
I tell you, one and one makes three
Oh, I'm the cult of personality
You gave me fortune, you gave me fame
You gave me power in your god's name
Edited by Brian Miller on 08 November 2024 at 8:36pm
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Michael Casselman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 January 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1256
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| Posted: 08 November 2024 at 9:18pm | IP Logged | 5
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Biden 2020 voters didn't turn into Trump 2024 voters. Trump is/was no less an existential threat in 2020 or 2024. His numbers held steady.
The Democratic Party needs to figure out why Harris couldn't motivate those missing 12M-15M from 2020 that were just as pissed at/scared of Trump 4 years ago.
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Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4649
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| Posted: 08 November 2024 at 9:30pm | IP Logged | 6
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Michael, Trump's gains with black and latino voters suggest that some Biden 2020 voters DID turn into Trump 2024 voters. What percentage remains to be seen. But it's not so simple as "everyone who voted for Trump last time did so again, but Harris lost 15 million Biden voters."
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Mark Waldman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1274
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| Posted: 08 November 2024 at 9:55pm | IP Logged | 7
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I chalk it up to a greater barrage of misinformation. Many people only get their "news" via online sound bytes vs. actual news. Elon cranking up the rhetoric and scare tactics seems to have worked.
I never had much respect for people, the masses are generally idiots, but even this result surprised me. The conspiracy nut in me feels when you have Putin, Elon, the GOP and a desperate plan for a dystopic future, it's a tough hand to beat - too much riding on it for the other side.
Listened today to Trump supporters flummoxed that tariffs mean they pay more for goods. Also, they were shocked that undocumented immigrants pay into the system without getting any benefits. They assumed undocumented means they pay nothing.
Ironically chatted with a paralegal today who asked to be paid in cash so she wouldn't have to pay taxes. She's a citizen, of course.
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Dave Kopperman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3475
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| Posted: 08 November 2024 at 10:26pm | IP Logged | 8
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Let's not forget the manosphere. It's too new a thing for the Democrats to have a strategy to counter, and doubtless some of the peeling off of male voters from multiple demographics from the left to Trump is due to that.
The GOP has always been phallocentric but in the age of Trump it's bordering on homoerotic.
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John Wickett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 July 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 874
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| Posted: 08 November 2024 at 11:47pm | IP Logged | 9
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"Considering her opponent did markedly worse in all of the above categories...I think an argument can be made that the above factors just didn't matter much to voters this time around."
Somebody mentioned this earlier...Trump successfully convinced voters they were worse off after 4 years of Biden than they were during his administration. Consequently, the margin of error for the Harris campaign was narrower than it was for Trump. So yes, I agree Trump was bad in all of those categories, but Dems needed to be strong in all of them, and Harris was not.
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John Wickett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 July 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 874
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| Posted: 08 November 2024 at 11:53pm | IP Logged | 10
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"Michael, Trump's gains with black and latino voters suggest that some Biden 2020 voters DID turn into Trump 2024 voters."
I think the clearest evidence of that is the split ballots.
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 36115
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| Posted: 09 November 2024 at 12:52am | IP Logged | 11
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The thing I think is most important here is that the Democratic Party can’t think of this as yet another one-off like 2016. Sure. Trump is one-of-one. But the significant gains he made with groups that were thought to be firmly in hand by Dems or toss up means that there’s a fundamental disconnect. As loathe as I am to read and hear autopsies about campaigns because every Tom, Dick and Harry has an opinion, this election needs one. Not from a Harris perspective, but a global one. Democrats simply did not connect even though their fundamental ideology is sound. They couldn’t message the way Republicans could, did and continue to do so. That needs a good, hard, long examination both inside and out before we can ever hope to win again on any significant level.
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Brian Price
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 June 2012
Posts: 47
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| Posted: 09 November 2024 at 12:57am | IP Logged | 12
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Yes, he does. He has both houses of Congress and a Supreme Court that
has literally told him he can do whatever he wants as President.
***********
Not gonna lie, it's going to be a shitshow for at least a couple of years. He's purged most if not all his detractors in Republican party during the last eight years, or at a minimum sent them running for cover.
That being said, even now he still doesn't have unchecked power. Way too much power, but not completely unchecked. And nothing will change the fact that he is an incompetent boob.
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