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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 135208
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| Posted: 30 June 2022 at 12:42pm | IP Logged | 1
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Reading here and elsewhere about books missing shipping because the creative teams are “growing roses”.I feel I must reiterate: if you want to spend extra time on a job, start early, don’t finish late.
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Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16629
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| Posted: 30 June 2022 at 7:38pm | IP Logged | 2
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Amen!!
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Brandon Frye
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 November 2004
Posts: 1323
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| Posted: 01 July 2022 at 6:07pm | IP Logged | 3
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What was Joe Quesada's infamous line? "Fans don't really expect their books on time."
If the publishers aren't willing to hold the creative teams accountable, no reason to think things will change (if they were true professionals they would hold themselves accountable, but that's a whole 'nother argument).
Doesn't help that so many of the very readers they are letting down are happily tolerant of delays. I can't count the number of times I've seen fans post comments like "I don't mind waiting if it means I'll get a good product"
Sigh.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 135208
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| Posted: 01 July 2022 at 6:25pm | IP Logged | 4
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I’m reasonably certain the “wait for the trade” mentality is in no small part due to unreliable shipping on the “monthly” books.
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Jabari Lamar
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 October 2017
Location: United States
Posts: 349
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| Posted: 01 July 2022 at 6:34pm | IP Logged | 5
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I remember having arguments with other fans at the time about this, and it seemed like Quesada was right, as many fans really didn't expect or care about late books, and acted like I was the one being unreasonable for complaining about it.
And yes, many of those fans did buy into the "growing roses" excuse, the idea that lateness just meant that the artist was working extra hard to make the book as good as possible, and therefore they'd rather that the artist take their time to get it right instead of "rushing to meet a deadline."
Edited by Jabari Lamar on 01 July 2022 at 6:35pm
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 135208
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| Posted: 01 July 2022 at 6:46pm | IP Logged | 6
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Two things—beyond spreading unprofessionalism—contributed to this sorry state of affairs. The first was Marvel’s introduction of the “dread deadline doom” as a way of excusing reprints in place of promised content. The second, decades later, was the concept of “growing roses”. And THINK about that one. The implication is that books that come out on time are inherently inferior. Once the consumers bought into those, professional behavior in comics publishing was mortally wounded. And things could only get worse.
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James Johnson
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Joined: 16 March 2009
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| Posted: 01 July 2022 at 7:04pm | IP Logged | 7
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The first was Marvel’s introduction of the “dread deadline doom” as a way of excusing reprints in place of promised content.
As a child growing up in the late 70s, I hated this. Purchasing books that had a new cover, but inside was a reprint.
The one that stood out for me was FANTASTIC FOUR #180.
One the cover, we have The Thing, Tigra, Thundra, and The Impossible Man standing over a robot that they defeat.
Inside, I'm seeing a reprint of FF #101, with the team battling the Maggia with an editor's note of how the "Ol' Dreaded Deadline Doom" came into play.
At age 11, I was glad that I got the book, but somehow, I felt cheated at the same time.
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Trevor Smith
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 3615
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| Posted: 01 July 2022 at 7:25pm | IP Logged | 8
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"Fans don't really expect their books on time."
**
Confused me, in the early days of Image, wondering why a
whole raft of books were never in on the day they were
supposed to be, would take exception to Quesada's
pronouncement.
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4560
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| Posted: 01 July 2022 at 7:46pm | IP Logged | 9
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I wondered when I would read of these 'problems' if someone wasn't just being a guest at way too many conventions! That really seemed to be the main focus for a lot of professionals and the companies' promotion and sales. Sort of a ghetto-ising effect as well as distraction? The doing should be the reward, not the cons or selling frame-able splash pages and sideline pin-ups, and the doing is telling involving stories visually.
First time I really noticed was waiting for Camelot 3000! And that was only ever meant to run for a single year. Also some independents had long gaps between stories... waiting for more Rocketeer to turn up and Ms. Mystic #2, but they seemed like they'd be worth the wait, a lot of others would get forgotten about.
I'm still feeling kind of cheated when I hear about blown schedules so often because I 'failed' at inking 25-28 pages of B&W per month back in the late '80s while holding a day job I couldn't completely get out of (and the comic was being sold before they even had a penciller for it, well behind schedule from the starting gates). If the money had've been there (more than $15 per page, or $20-25 with later bonuses) I could have easily done the 20 pages or whatever the monthly professional minimum was circa the early '90s, and 'color-open' even moreso (no idea what percentage of time I spent filling blank backgrounds for B&W, first with costly tone patterns and later stipple and other patterns)! I was informed I was getting an assignment from DC circa 1994 but Neal Pozner died suddenly and I didn't know until much latter, and if Dean Motter ever did send something besides more test pages it didn't reach me. I could've been a second rate Bob Budiansky! At least until arthritis clobbered me. Even at my best though I could not have inked JB properly I don't feel. Much better seen here honestly.
While there should be a place for the artist/creator that can produce only one book per year, everything doesn't have to be monthly or bi-weekly (used to be many eight a year DCs and bi-monthly Marvels), still a solid backbone of monthly capables would seem to be a necessary major foundation (like daily for newspaper strips). Elfquest was three or four per year and I thought that was a great series, and one of the first to have collected volumes, but modern business involves predictable cash-flow and even they found I believe that they had to try to take on other titles to be a proper company.
Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 01 July 2022 at 7:52pm
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Paul Wills
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Joined: 18 August 2018
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| Posted: 01 July 2022 at 7:55pm | IP Logged | 10
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In the good ol' days, when a comic was delayed it seemed because they were working on a double issue (which still doesn't apply to JB because he would get his double issues out on schedule regardless!). I believe the one exception were those notoriously late artist/writers who absolutely put in extra effort to put out a high quality comic ala Dave Stevens.
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Philippe Negrin
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Joined: 01 August 2007
Location: France
Posts: 2643
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| Posted: 01 July 2022 at 8:14pm | IP Logged | 11
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The European in me ( we have more emphasis on fixed artists and writers on books and mostly creator-owned books) would rather wait than have a fill in / library drawer issue. I almost always hated those and felt cheated !
Edited by Philippe Negrin on 01 July 2022 at 8:15pm
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4560
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| Posted: 01 July 2022 at 8:30pm | IP Logged | 12
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The ideal was a full inventory issue on hand, or even a two-parter maybe? They were often really high quality although still a substitute, but much better than the reprint option (even with a new framing of a page or three). I think maybe this was a strong point of the Shooter and into the DeFalco eras of Marvel? Those last minute reprints seemed too common when Goodwin and others were in charge (although Goodwin seemed to be on schedule with Epic from what I remember). DC seemed to do worse during much of the early-middle '80s for comics not arriving when announced.
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