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Topic: JB - What did you/do you think of Miracleman? (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Jeremy Nichols
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Posted: 11 May 2005 at 1:20pm | IP Logged | 1  

 Darragh Greene wrote:
Interesting thought experiment,
Jeremy.


Thanks, man. I thought about writing it up into a story, but it'd
only have the right effect with the JLA, and DC wouldn't touch
that bag of worms with an infinite pole.

 Darragh Greene wrote:
Superman first. If the Rapture took
place, Superman would be one of the Elect. How do we know
he's Elect? He's a good guy, so he's Elect. That's Calvin's
logic.



Well, I'm pretty sure Superman's not a born-again believer, and
since the experiment was for the Left Behind meets DCU... I
don't think that'll work. He's more of an Antichrist archetype.

So Batman and Wonder Woman go to hell. Using that logic,
along with the objective, absolute morality of the Left Behind
God... that means Batman and Wonder Woman are evil.
Aquaman too, I'd wager... where does that put our allegiances
to these characters if they're all hellbound?

Of course, they're not hellbound. They ARE good guys....... to
us. But whether or not they're hellbound, my point is more that
Superman, Batman, and the rest of the JLA would view GOD as
the BAD GUY... he's trying to destroy everything they hold dear
and have risks and sacrificed much to protect over the years.
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Darragh Greene
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Posted: 11 May 2005 at 1:32pm | IP Logged | 2  

 Jeremy Nichols wrote:
 Darragh Greene wrote:
Interesting thought experiment,
Jeremy.


Thanks, man. I thought about writing it up into a story, but it'd
only have the right effect with the JLA, and DC wouldn't touch
that bag of worms with an infinite pole.

Yup, those corporate thought police will thwart you everytime!


 QUOTE:


Well, I'm pretty sure Superman's not a born-again believer, and
since the experiment was for the Left Behind meets DCU... I
don't think that'll work. He's more of an Antichrist archetype.

For the story to work maybe he has to be on the other side. But I maintain Superman would fold in the face of God. Certainly, he would if we were talking about Frank Miller's Superman. Superman respects authority. God is the ulltimate authority, so.... 


 QUOTE:
So Batman and Wonder Woman go to hell. Using that logic,
along with the objective, absolute morality of the Left Behind
God... that means Batman and Wonder Woman are evil.

Yes, they're damned so it's evidence of their reprobate status and, thus, they're evil.



 QUOTE:
Aquaman too, I'd wager... where does that put our allegiances
to these characters if they're all hellbound?

Interesting. Do you root for God or the JLA? 


 QUOTE:
Of course, they're not hellbound. They ARE good guys....... to
us. But whether or not they're hellbound, my point is more that
Superman, Batman, and the rest of the JLA would view GOD as
the BAD GUY... he's trying to destroy everything they hold dear
and have risks and sacrificed much to protect over the years.

Of course, if we're being rigorous about this, then we have to factor in the fact that only bad people are going to hell, so Lex Luthor's going, the Joker's going, etc. Whereas good people are going to heaven, so Perry White's elect, Alfred Pennyworth's elect, etc.

Didn't the JLA fight against the likes of Lex Luthor and the Joker in order to protect the likes of Perry and Alfred? So the only people going to hell are the people the JLA have spent their entire career fighting!

So I smell a paradox?



Edited by Darragh Greene on 11 May 2005 at 1:35pm
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Jeremy Nichols
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Posted: 11 May 2005 at 1:51pm | IP Logged | 3  

 Darragh Greene wrote:
Superman respects authority. God
is the ulltimate authority.... 

Interesting. Do you root for God or the JLA? 

....we have to factor in the fact that only bad people are going
to hell....Perry White's elect, Alfred Pennyworth's elect, etc.



I don't think Superman would see God as the ultimate authority
in this scenario. He'd see him as a theat. Zeus is authority. The
US goverment is authority. Hell, Darkseid is authority. Lex was
authority at some point. Superman is mankind's protector, and
that's ALL of mankind... not just the "good" people.

Well, if it's REALLY the Left Behind God, then I'd still root for the
JLA but it'd be pointless cause they'd lose.

Why are only "bad people" going to hell? That's a pretty easy-
going view of Christianity... the general consensus is you have
to be a Christian, not just good. I could see Alfred having a
deep-rooted faith, but Perry White? No freakin' way. Jimmy,
yeah. Lois, definitely not.
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Darragh Greene
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Posted: 11 May 2005 at 1:58pm | IP Logged | 4  

 Jeremy Nichols wrote:
I don't think Superman would see God as the ultimate authority
in this scenario. He'd see him as a theat. Zeus is authority. The
US goverment is authority. Hell, Darkseid is authority. Lex was
authority at some point. Superman is mankind's protector, and
that's ALL of mankind... not just the "good" people.

I still see Superman as the weak link here. I'm trying to think of anyone who's written him as that independently minded.... 


 QUOTE:
Well, if it's REALLY the Left Behind God, then I'd still root for the
JLA but it'd be pointless cause they'd lose.

Yup. 


 QUOTE:
Why are only "bad people" going to hell? That's a pretty easy-
going view of Christianity... the general consensus is you have
to be a Christian, not just good. I could see Alfred having a
deep-rooted faith, but Perry White? No freakin' way. Jimmy,
yeah. Lois, definitely not.

The Left Behind God is John Calvin's God, so, yes, in that context only the baptised and only those baptised who are elect are going to heaven. That's 144,000 people, no more no less.

What a happy ending!

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John Mietus
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Posted: 11 May 2005 at 2:06pm | IP Logged | 5  

 Darragh Greene wrote:

Gaiman doesn't get superheroes; so
he's never been strong on them. 



Neither does Alan Moore, but that doesn't stop him from repeatedly going
back to the well and pissing in it.
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Jeremy Nichols
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Posted: 11 May 2005 at 2:08pm | IP Logged | 6  

 Darragh Greene wrote:

The Left Behind God is John
Calvin's God, so, yes, in that context only the baptised and only
those baptised who are elect are going to heaven. That's
144,000 people, no more no less.


What a happy ending!


The happy ending part was sarcastic, right? That leaves about
6 billion other people who get killed and go to hell. You think
Superman wouldn't try to stop that? That'd be worse than any
other threat ('cept maybe the Anti-Monitor) he's ever faced.

Next week's debate: If Ragnarok happened, what would
Marmaduke do?
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Darragh Greene
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Location: Ireland
Posts: 1812
Posted: 11 May 2005 at 4:04pm | IP Logged | 7  

 Jeremy Nichols wrote:
 Darragh Greene wrote:
What a happy ending!


The happy ending part was sarcastic, right?


Right!


 QUOTE:
Next week's debate: If Ragnarok happened, what would
Marmaduke do?


Piss on the World-tree? ;-)
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