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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 21 July 2020 at 9:51am | IP Logged | 1
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Roger Stern used to attribute the success of the X-Men, at least in the “cult book” days, to how much they fit the model of so many fans.
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 21 July 2020 at 9:56am | IP Logged | 2
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Dave K. - you mention a Legion story (and I am particularly fond of the LSH.) You note about the challenge of reading a Legion story and having to have so much knowledge.
But even a half talented writer should take that into account, and make the story clear to the reader*. Continuity is a wonderful thing, but it should be a tool, not a shackle.
*Back in the day, both DC and Marvel put a little expose at the top of the first page to supply a bit of history and knowledge about the topic, e.g., "Launched to Earth by his parents when the planet Krypton exploded, mild mannered reporter fights a never ending battle for truth, justice, and the American way as Superman." Quick and easy.
For that matter, even the X-Men had a pretty good "headline" - "Cyclops. Storm. Nightcrawler. Colossus. Banshee. Children of the atom, students of Charles Xavier, MUTANTS - feared and hated by the world they have sworn to protect. These are the STRANGEST heroes of all!"
This also starts to fall apart when the heroes are not identifiable by name. You KNOW who Angel and Beast and Colossus are just by looking at them briefly. When you have heroes such as Cable, Domino, or Jubilee - then it's the writers responsibility to clarify them quickly.
Well, really, it's the writer's responsibility to not use fucking random nouns as hero names. Stan never did that...
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Dave Kopperman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3518
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| Posted: 21 July 2020 at 10:07am | IP Logged | 3
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Eric Sofer wrote:
| But even a half talented writer should take that into account, and make the story clear to the reader*. Continuity is a wonderful thing, but it should be a tool, not a shackle. |
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Yes, I deliberately elided to imply that very meaning. I think of stuff like Grant Morrison's run on Batman or current run on Green Lantern, where his goal is to try to unify the entire contradictory continuity of the character into a single, unified whole BUT ends up overwhelming the pleasure of the story with the endless nods to obscure and silly stories that are decades out of memory. And the weird thing is that Morrison is actually a very GOOD writer of comics (as a craft - regardless of if you like the themes or stories of his work, craft is craft) - he knows how to impart character through a balanced blend of action and dialogue, and he can throw down exposition in such a smooth way that you're not even aware that you've been given information that you need to understand the story. But it's that trap, that continuity trap, and that increasing spiral (really more of a DC than Marvel thing, as far as I can tell) into the belly-button singularity. And Morrison has passed completely to the other side of it.
Edited by Dave Kopperman on 21 July 2020 at 10:09am
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 21 July 2020 at 11:46am | IP Logged | 4
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Your original plans for Uncanny had a conflict between Wolverine and Sabretooth brewing.Any chance Sabretooth might be dropping by? That's another character I'd love to see you tackle again... ••• Trouble with Sabretooth is the character has been so......altered since my day, anything I do with him might seem like sour grapes on my part.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 21 July 2020 at 11:48am | IP Logged | 5
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...I am particularly fond of the LSH.••• Okay, you’re on Double Secret Probation..........
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 21 July 2020 at 11:50am | IP Logged | 6
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but it should be a tool, not a shackle.*Back in the day, both DC and Marvel put a little expose at the top of the first page to supply a bit of history and knowledge about the topic, e.g., "Launched to Earth by his parents when the planet Krypton exploded, mild mannered reporter fights a never ending battle for truth, justice, and the American way as Superman." Quick and easy. ••• And lazy. A good writer should be able to include all the necessary information in every issue—and without acres of exposition or footnotes.
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Scott Barnett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 December 2018
Location: United States
Posts: 264
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| Posted: 21 July 2020 at 12:08pm | IP Logged | 7
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Your original plans for Uncanny had a conflict between Wolverine and Sabretooth brewing.Any chance Sabretooth might be dropping by? That's another character I'd love to see you tackle again... ••• Trouble with Sabretooth is the character has been so......altered since my day, anything I do with him might seem like sour grapes on my part. ••• I don't know- you brought Magneto back and went back to basics with him, stripping away the Holocaust survivor backstory. I think that worked well.
I was just wondering, is all. I've got my seat belt fastened and I'm keeping my arms inside the ride, so I'm ready for whatever you unleash. I think. :)
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Larry Gil
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 November 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 764
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| Posted: 21 July 2020 at 12:39pm | IP Logged | 8
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Would love to see Quicksilver make an appearance.
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 21 July 2020 at 12:43pm | IP Logged | 9
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DOUBLE SECRET PROBATION??? I mean, look Mr. Byrne, I love all your work - but when you say Legion in front of me, you mean Jerry Siegel, Curt Swan, and George Klein. That's what I'M talking about!
Damn, and here I was hoping to renew my JBF membership this month. I almost called Western Union today...
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 21 July 2020 at 12:55pm | IP Logged | 10
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I don't know- you brought Magneto back and went back to basics with him, stripping away the Holocaust survivor backstory. ••• No, I just didn’t mention it! But Sabretooth is SO far from “my” character, I couldn’t do much without contradicting.
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Scott Barnett
Byrne Robotics Member
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| Posted: 21 July 2020 at 2:26pm | IP Logged | 11
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No, I just didn’t mention it! ••• True. ••• But Sabretooth is SO far from “my” character, I couldn’t do much without contradicting. ••• Got it.
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Vinny Valenti
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8172
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| Posted: 21 July 2020 at 2:34pm | IP Logged | 12
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"Trouble with Sabretooth is the character has been so......altered since my day, anything I do with him might seem like sour grapes on my part."
--
Noooooooooooooo! Ever since you mentioned the original plans for Mariko, I had been dying to see a full-on tussle between him and Wolverine by you.
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