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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 25 October 2019 at 10:34am | IP Logged | 1
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ITEM: Magneto is scum, on a level with Dr. Doom. We all know that. Mass slaughter and murder aren't beneath him - why would rape? It's a horrific crime, it is (in SOME ways) worse than death, I'm toild - but surely it's nothing for evil such as Magneto. I dismiss it as part of the character.
But I wonder about Wolverine. What is he doing? Is he just trying to take down Magneto to be imprisoned? Is he trying to slash him into submission? We know that Wolverine is aware that he can't let Magneto take a deep breath - he outright says it.
But he snuck up on Magneto - so why not just three claws through the back of the head? That ought to take care of him. It just seems so in-character to me for Wolverine.
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Scott Barnett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 December 2018
Location: United States
Posts: 264
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| Posted: 25 October 2019 at 10:36am | IP Logged | 2
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I'd like to believe you created this page just for me, JB! ;)
My son (who's named after Canada's tallest mountain) and I thank you!
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4635
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| Posted: 25 October 2019 at 10:49am | IP Logged | 3
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Hoo boy, what Magneto could do to Wolverine! It's always seemed odd how it worked out that the new X-Men had two metallic-based members (Colossus being at almost as great a disadvantage and reduced to normal human form lest he be crumpled like a tin can) when their greatest adversary can control metal. It's almost like Spider-Man having a giant foot for a nemesis!
"Mentioning Mastermind and Jean brings up an important point. Today I am sure Chris and I would be condemned for what was, after all, a prolonged psychic rape—which we knew at the time."
But the pay off was there was a drooling crumpled vegetable Mastermind... who should never have come back from what Phoenix dealt him as far as I'm concerned... or at best after a long long time, and very damaged/scared crapless to try anything remotely like that again! The death of Phoenix was nothing next to seeing crummy Mastermind/Wynegarde returning in that lame-ass re-run of Phoenix II or III or whatever that was with Madelyn Pryor (nicely drawn by Paul Smith though it may've been). I really liked Claremont's writing at one time, I still like the run on Spider-Woman with Steve Leialoha a lot, but he just ruined the X-Men by becoming a parody of himself often. And the later punk-bondage clothes and makeovers that were like three or more years out of style at least compared to the more timeless Regency-Hellfire shtick even... WTF? I see Claremont (or Gerber) as writer now and I avoid because both went from fresh to stale and pandering, recycling a limited 'best hits' for their fans'. No, Mastermind does not come back and do the exact same thing again to anyone... that was saying Phoenix was no bloody good at her job! She could eat the sun of the asperagus people, she could zap a Shi'ar ship, she could save the universe before that, but loathsome Mastermind makes a full recovery? I do not think so. :^|
There I said it, hear me roar etc., that retribution is what made it work and made a classic, and what he threw away, undid and even made a bad joke of... like Kitty a genius ninja S.H.I.E.L.D. operative who tells cutesy bedtime stories centered on tragically dead loved-ones and even dresses up as one!!! Ewww.
Also Magneto and Emma Frost as teachers and leaders of X-Men... another fine mess. They could pretend to have changed, like Lex Luthor II pretended to be his own son, but it would take a truly great writer and a lot more time for me to accept Magneto or Ms. Frost as fighting the good fight in any way. Rogue and sometimes Wolverine were difficult enough to accept.
Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 25 October 2019 at 10:55am
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133571
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| Posted: 25 October 2019 at 10:49am | IP Logged | 4
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Why don’t heroes just kill the villains? Well, the question sort of contains its own answer, doesn’t it? But let me once again quote Pansy Yokum:“Good will always triumph over evil because it’s nicer.”
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Michael Genitempo
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 July 2019
Location: United States
Posts: 428
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| Posted: 25 October 2019 at 11:05am | IP Logged | 5
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But he snuck up on Magneto - so why not just three claws through the back of the head? That ought to take care of him. It just seems so in-character to me for Wolverine. ...
Maybe Wolverine just lost it a bit, as he is prone to do, and wanted to just put the hurt on Magneto first?
And I totally agree with Rebecca: Mastermind coming back was total BS... And even worse, much later, claiming to love Jean -even larger BS!
Edited by Michael Genitempo on 25 October 2019 at 11:07am
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4635
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| Posted: 25 October 2019 at 11:20am | IP Logged | 6
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So let's say Wolverine slices Magneto's head off in that scene... he says 'glaurgh', it bounces on the floor, the whole deal... where to now? It's kind of that basic isn't it? All this time this guy has caused all this trouble but all we needed was just one person willing to kill to get lucky... but didn't we go through this with the Batman 'fixing' what was wrong with The Joker with his bare hands? So, we haven't seen The Joker around for twenty or more years right? Riiiigght. I guess I'm contradicting what I just wrote about Claremont's later writing of Mastermind a bit... maybe I should've just stopped reading much earlier than I did. :^D
Yeah, looking back the #153 bedtime story was the notice that this comic was no longer for me.
Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 25 October 2019 at 11:21am
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133571
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| Posted: 25 October 2019 at 11:50am | IP Logged | 7
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I often hear about Chris’ phenomenally long run on X-MEN, and when I do I ask—without snark, I promise you—“Was it, tho? Really?”In his long tenure on a book called “X-Men” Chris changed the characters and concepts so often it was as if he actually wrote, like, ten different books. I used to say it was like an inversion of the old DRAGNET tag line “only the names have been changed”. In Chris’ case only the names were kept!
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Richard Palmgren
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 May 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 328
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| Posted: 25 October 2019 at 11:50am | IP Logged | 8
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MORE in character for especially THIS Wolverine is holding back and controlling the urge to slice off people's heads after all that hoop jumping for Chuck
(defining moment for me as a reader is the Logan flashback with Mac and Heather in #140....you can "see" Logan being almost disgusted with himself)
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Vinny Valenti
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8157
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| Posted: 25 October 2019 at 12:04pm | IP Logged | 9
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"I used to say it was like an inversion of the old DRAGNET tag line “only the names have been changed”. In Chris’ case only the names were kept!"
--
I was thinking yesterday about how he had teased a romance between Magneto and Rogue out of the blue near the end of his run, even though they had worked together for years (publication time) with nothing between them. He then did the same with Colossus and Rogue when he returned around 2000.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 25 October 2019 at 12:09pm | IP Logged | 10
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I thought Rogue was 16?
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 25 October 2019 at 12:25pm | IP Logged | 11
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I don't know if Rogue's age (or real name) was ever revealed. I do know that Michael Golden's art in her first appearance made her look to be in her late 30s... but it's so hard to tell. My impression is that she is in her mid-20s... but that's Marvel time. Who knows?
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Vinny Valenti
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Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8157
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| Posted: 25 October 2019 at 12:54pm | IP Logged | 12
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I recall that OHOTMU did list her as a minor.
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