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Tim O Neill
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Posted: 07 March 2020 at 3:43pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply


"Cutting and pasting from Wikipedia is against the rules
last I checked."

*****

It is, but I can't bring myself to delete it. He didn't
just cut and paste to pass off as his own, he cut and paste
and left in the Wikipedia index numbers. This is not the
swiftest of moves, and it kind of reveals where he's coming
from. And I have to admit, it's kind of funny.



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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 07 March 2020 at 3:59pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

2) Whether people died directly from influenza or from bacterial pneumonia that followed the influenza, a pandemic of this nature is going to tax hospitals and medical supplies. We are in the same situation of having no vaccines and no medications. And if we are going to rely on antibiotics to treat secondary infections, antibiotic resistance is going to be a major issue. 

But no one said that.  To compare modern day medicine and facilities to those of the early 1900's doesn't seem equitable though, does it?  Many(most?) of the Spanish flu related deaths were due to the overcrowding primitive medical technology so no, I would not agree that we are in the same situation.  The vaccine for polio was still almost 50 years away at that point.

------

Well, OK, you do realize that if we are talking about COVID-19 having a higher mortality rate than the Spanish Flu, and you are trying to argue that most of the Spanish Flu deaths were related to primitive medical technology, then you are now in the position of saying that COVID-19 is even deadlier, right? That's where you've argued yourself into.

Because if most of the Spanish flu deaths were due to secondary infections and primitive medical technology, and COVID-19 has a higher mortality rate due to primary infections and with more advanced medical technology, then we should be even more concerned about the latter.
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Andy Mokler
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Posted: 07 March 2020 at 4:36pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Well, OK, you do realize that if we are talking about COVID-19 having a higher mortality rate than the Spanish Flu, and you are trying to argue that most of the Spanish Flu deaths were related to primitive medical technology, then you are now in the position of saying that COVID-19 is even deadlier, right? That's where you've argued yourself into.

No, you said that we are in the same situation of not having vaccines and medicines as those who faced the Spanish flu.  That is not true.  Just because there was no vaccine initially in both situations does not mean the situations are equitable.
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Fred J Chamberlain
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Posted: 07 March 2020 at 4:38pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

The United States has the highest mortality rates, for those newly
infected. It appears that the lack of access to tests has played a role in
us being #1.
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 07 March 2020 at 4:39pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Welcome to ignore, Andy.

Edited by Brian Miller on 07 March 2020 at 4:39pm
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Andy Mokler
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Posted: 07 March 2020 at 4:42pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

It is, but I can't bring myself to delete it. He didn't
just cut and paste to pass off as his own, he cut and paste
and left in the Wikipedia index numbers. This is not the
swiftest of moves, and it kind of reveals where he's coming
from. And I have to admit, it's kind of funny.

There's nothing unswift about it.  I wasn't trying to hide anything.  That no one here is questioning the summation of the Spanish flu that I cited, I find it funny that you find it funny.

But, what is revealed is the "where he's coming from", "gotcha" type bullshit that is so very annoying about message boards and social media.

Instead of pointing out that JB has an arbitrary rule about citing from Wikepedia it has instead been used as some sort of gauge to my intelligence/motivation.  
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Andy Mokler
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Posted: 07 March 2020 at 4:47pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Welcome to ignore, Andy.

Because I don't share your opinion?  Because I've been rude?  You can't just ignore but have to make an announcement about it?  
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 07 March 2020 at 5:03pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

. Covid19 has killed 17 in the US, so you're only out by 89%.

And you're apparently trying to miss the point
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------------
The point -- originally -- was that it is not Presidential to want to ignore the advice of the CDC because you don't want the stats to look bad. And it's also irresponsible.

Your counterpoint seemed to be that the media was exaggerating or misleading.

When you cite incorrect numbers for how many have died, it is you that is misleading, while simultanesouly failing to be abreast of the subject that you are talking about. The fact that your number was about two days old but almost 90% wrong shows how fast things are moving. But apparently that is irrelevant.

As for the mortality rate, as Michael pointed out, it is even more worrying (considering how basic health care was at the time of the Spanish flu) that the mortality rate  is higher for the coronavirus.

The WHO organisation currently judges the mortality rate at 3.4%. Which is higher than the estimated mortality rate of the Spanish Flu in 1918. Which killed tens of millions of people. 

I still don't understand how you think the media are exaggerating or distorting the story when they are reporting factual WHO numbers. Yes the numbers are small... And those numbers are the numbers that are being reported by the media. The reason there is fear is because there is a great deal of uncertainty and because people are able to extrapolate the mortality rate alongside the rapid infection rates and see a potentially scary picture... Which apparently you refuse to see.

Health officials around the world clearly deem the situation extremely serious, which is why we are seeing quarantines, cancelled sporting events, bans on large congregations of people and so on. Reporting this is fear mongering?


Edited by Peter Martin on 07 March 2020 at 5:08pm
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 07 March 2020 at 5:38pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Maybe Andy has a hunch the number is lower than 3.4%.
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 07 March 2020 at 7:41pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Italy is quarantining more than a quarter of its entire population until April.

Crazy what the media can achieve...
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 08 March 2020 at 3:23am | IP Logged | 11 post reply


 QUOTE:
No, you said that we are in the same situation of not having vaccines and medicines as those who faced the Spanish flu. That is not true.

You are reading a phantom because that is not there. There is currently no vaccine for COVID-19 or developed treatment for its symptoms. THAT IS A FACT.


 QUOTE:
Just because there was no vaccine initially in both situations does not mean the situations are equitable.

Great, because that is not something I was arguing. I was pointing out that the currently calculated mortality rate (which admittedly may be overestimated because the virus might be more widespread than we realize) is higher than the Spanish Flu. THAT IS A FACT. You pointing out that the mortality rate for the Spanish Flu was actually due to secondary bacterial infections due to poor medical care does not change those facts. In fact, it defeats your argument, because it means with today's current standards of medical care, fewer people would have died due to the Spanish Flu while COVID-19 deaths are happening at a higher rate.


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Eric Ladd
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Posted: 10 March 2020 at 9:29am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Watching a con man try to deal with the threat and consequence of a virus with no political affiliation is telling. He is not equipped to deal with anything when there is nobody to blame. Disbanding the NSC's and HSS's Global Health Security teams in 2018 seems rather stupid in hindsight. Leaving 700 CDC positions unfilled after taking office in 2017 might prove as a poor choice in the coming months. Also back in 2018 due to a lack of funding the CDC had to cut back on its epidemic response programs and that budgetary decision could also come back and haunt the Prez. Basically, all the lessons learned in 2014 when Ebola threatened the world were discarded and ignored under the current regime. The US has always risen to the occassion when their backs are against the wall, but that was mostly due to good leadership. I wonder if the US can build hospitals in three days?
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