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Andy Mokler Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 20 January 2006 Location: United States Posts: 2799
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Posted: 07 March 2020 at 2:30pm | IP Logged | 1
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And you seem to ignore the several examples that the chain link enclosure, whether in a wrestling match or an IT basement, is called a cage. The media refers to the chain link enclosure as a cage because that’s what chain link enclosures are. Which is completely beside the point, because regardless of what you call it, it’s wrong to herd a bunch of kids who have no idea what is going on in them.
I think I've explained my dissatisfaction with the phrasing pretty clearly, I'm not ignoring it at all.
But how do you propose "herding" these children in the specific situations? You're out in the middle of the desert, have hundreds(thousands?) of kids that have to be processed and there are no dorms or foster homes. Solution? | |
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Michael Roberts Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 20 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 14913
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Posted: 07 March 2020 at 2:36pm | IP Logged | 2
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QUOTE:
I think keeping things in perspective is what they should do. They are presenting it like it's the black plague when it pales in comparison to influenza. I don't think they are simply reporting facts and it seems disingenuous to suggest that they are. |
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Once again, you are wrong. There are plenty of articles acknowledging that the flu is more prevalent and has killed more people. This is followed by scientists and medical professionals explaining why there is more concern about COVID-19:
-We have vaccines for the flu and medications that can ameliorate the symptoms of the flu. We do not have these for COVID-19. A vaccine is probably 18 months away.
-COVID-19 is a novel Coronavirus, so the population does not have individuals with immunity that would decrease the rate of infection, unlike the flu.
-We know that the virus spreads through droplets like the flu, but it’s unclear if the virus is airborne.
-The current mortality rate is higher than the flu, and if it holds, it’ll be more like the Spanish Flu pandemic than a really bad flu season.
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Rebecca Jansen Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 12 February 2018 Location: Canada Posts: 4635
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Posted: 07 March 2020 at 2:44pm | IP Logged | 3
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There are reports that national numbers that were on the government website on Monday were entirely removed by Friday, making it very difficult for reporters to get solid numbers on infected and dead. Erased like the pandemic response system set up by Obama.
If you look back I was questioning of the first reports about how people were treated at the border as hysteria. Since then I've seen how badly many Canadians who have never had issues before were starting to get treated, plus they are cages if you are kept in them for days! If you are walking through a bunch of chain link fence enclosures as our present in our ports up here, that is normal, multiples of people sitting and sleeping on cold concrete given thin reflective blankets is not, am glad we haven't had that up here at this border, but people have been kept for hours and interrogated and then slapped with five year bans on the thinnest of pretexts: like one woman had some paint with her and was going to help a friend paint a new house, no charge = taking a job from a U.S. citizen... another had volunteered at an annual music festival, again no pay involved = also taking a job, five year ban. This is how you treat your largest trade partner and usually closest ally? But then if half the people in your own country are now 'the enemy', along with your media...
We have to stand together and with what are poor people hoping to escape from a deadly situation fueled by the money U.S. citizens have pumped into the illegal drug trade. These refugees are your creation in part (and Canada's too), every single cocaine inhaling one of us, our responsibility, or do people believe Republicans for Trump never snort or smoke or shoot? That professed born again Christians can never do wrong?
Absolutely everyone could know Trump was a racist way back when he re-tweeted phony stats of black violence he just happened to run across from a racist website... there is and has been no other explanation for anyone doing that. This is also after the Central Park attack ad he paid for in a major newspaper which at least I can expect some not to have seen. He made the choice to put out hateful bogus garbage intended to mislead and dis-inform, and people chose to not know that or voted for a definite and very obvious racist. If that alone wasn't disqualifying enough there were dozens of other warning signs in his speech and behavior as well as history in business to say, not competent or acceptable president material if you have any genuine love for your country and it's people.
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Fred J Chamberlain Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 30 August 2006 Location: United States Posts: 4066
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Posted: 07 March 2020 at 2:48pm | IP Logged | 4
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Rebecca, anyone with the smallest bit of interest in knowing who Trump is, could have easily googled 40 years of very public behavior, prior to voting for him.
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Michael Roberts Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 20 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 14913
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Posted: 07 March 2020 at 2:52pm | IP Logged | 5
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But how do you propose "herding" these children in the specific situations? You're out in the middle of the desert, have hundreds(thousands?) of kids that have to be processed and there are no dorms or foster homes. Solution?
———
Middle of the desert? There might be some in the desert, but most are located near city centers and suburbs.
And there are dorms in many of these facilities. That’s the entire point. But how about start with not putting the kids in “chain link enclosures”.
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Andy Mokler Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 20 January 2006 Location: United States Posts: 2799
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Posted: 07 March 2020 at 2:58pm | IP Logged | 6
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I'm not sure the Spanish flu is a good example for what you're saying.
In contrast, a 2007 analysis of medical journals from the period of the pandemic[16][17] found that the viral infection was no more aggressive than previous influenza strains. Instead, malnourishment, overcrowded medical camps and hospitals, and poor hygiene promoted bacterial superinfection. This superinfection killed most of the victims, typically after a somewhat prolonged deathbed.[18][19]
And I'm not saying there isn't any information out there, I'm talking about the general way that the media is covering the situation.
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Brian Miller Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 28 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 31649
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Posted: 07 March 2020 at 3:08pm | IP Logged | 7
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Interesting that you brought up the Spanish Flu. I just read an article that mentioned Trump's own grandfather died from it.
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Andy Mokler Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 20 January 2006 Location: United States Posts: 2799
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Posted: 07 March 2020 at 3:12pm | IP Logged | 8
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And there are dorms in many of these facilities. That’s the entire point. But how about start with not putting the kids in “chain link enclosures”.
We're talking about the point at which they are detained, right? What do you suggest for these facilities? According to the link you provided, there are already 10,000 children in the system. A percentage of which were unaccompanied when they got here.
Like I said, those trying to get in legally are the one's I feel for. How do we know which people trying to get in are just regular folks? Should we bother to check to see if they're already criminals? How should regular families who chose to break the law be detained?
Most people who get in trouble in the US spend some time on uncomfortable benches and/or concrete floors. So, you don't want kids to have to deal with that which is understandable but you also don't want to separate them from their adults. Should anyone from somewhere else get better treatment than other potential law breakers?
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Rebecca Jansen Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 12 February 2018 Location: Canada Posts: 4635
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Posted: 07 March 2020 at 3:16pm | IP Logged | 9
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Take down the Statue Of Liberty and put up the closed signs... how that can be 'great' for the economy I can't begin to imagine. Sounds more like North Korea. Anyone who refers to human beings as an infestation should've been left on the rubbish pile of history long ago. Pogo Possum knew.
Oh, and in case I might need to state this, while offered the white stuff from Colombia (or wherever else down there) many times I have never accepted any samples or ever paid for any either. They should've started teaching kids in school what that stuff turns everyone into, a class A jerk in my experience. Nobody needs it or is improved by it. Never was 'cool' and never will be, and the lives of people made worse or ended by it is something we need to look directly at. Huge money fueling the violence and corruption is coming from us, a lot of those people down there like me have never and would never use the junk.
Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 07 March 2020 at 3:22pm
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Doug Centers Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 17 February 2014 Location: United States Posts: 5707
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Posted: 07 March 2020 at 3:22pm | IP Logged | 10
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I'm thinking the C-virus is more akin to the Swine flu of about a decade ago. I remember the media attention, rightfully so, it would kill thousands in the U.S. I'm actually fairly confident that the CDC is farther ahead of this virus.
A strange anomaly with the C-virus is that young children seem to fight it off easily, unlike most other virus'.
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Michael Roberts Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 20 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 14913
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Posted: 07 March 2020 at 3:23pm | IP Logged | 11
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QUOTE:
I'm not sure the Spanish flu is a good example for what you're saying. |
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1) Cutting and pasting from Wikipedia is against the rules last I checked.
2) Whether people died directly from influenza or from bacterial pneumonia that followed the influenza, a pandemic of this nature is going to tax hospitals and medical supplies. We are in the same situation of having no vaccines and no medications. And if we are going to rely on antibiotics to treat secondary infections, antibiotic resistance is going to be a major issue.
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Andy Mokler Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 20 January 2006 Location: United States Posts: 2799
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Posted: 07 March 2020 at 3:37pm | IP Logged | 12
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2) Whether people died directly from influenza or from bacterial pneumonia that followed the influenza, a pandemic of this nature is going to tax hospitals and medical supplies. We are in the same situation of having no vaccines and no medications. And if we are going to rely on antibiotics to treat secondary infections, antibiotic resistance is going to be a major issue.
But no one said that. To compare modern day medicine and facilities to those of the early 1900's doesn't seem equitable though, does it? Many(most?) of the Spanish flu related deaths were due to the overcrowding primitive medical technology so no, I would not agree that we are in the same situation. The vaccine for polio was still almost 50 years away at that point.
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