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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15991
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| Posted: 25 March 2019 at 9:22am | IP Logged | 1
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Did you not see my 4th paragraph? I was just quoting a
news headline, they do that all that time and I don't
like it.------------------------------ I did read your 4th paragraph. It talks about the report concluding there was no conspiracy. It mentions nothing about obstruction. All you wrote about obstruction was the quote that Mueller finds no obstruction, when Mueller's report did find evidence that might be obstruction but stops short of drawing a conclusion one way or the other. If there was zero evidence of obstruction, surely he would have concluded: no obstruction?
Furthermore, if you don't like the practice of misleading news headlines, why are you then disseminating those misleading headlines?
Trump, by the way, tweeted: "Total EXONERATION!"
Actual facts: no evidence of conspiracy to the rigorous standards of the law. There is evidence, from what Barr's letter says, that Trump may have potentially obstructed justice, but little chance of conviction in the eyes Barr, the Trump-appointed AG.
In other words, pointedly not a total exoneration.Even Barr couldn't conclude that Trump didn't obstruct justice.
Some decent analysis here, if you have the time to read it: LINK
Edited by Peter Martin on 25 March 2019 at 9:23am
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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
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Location: Canada
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| Posted: 25 March 2019 at 9:26am | IP Logged | 2
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And from that link, this could be a crucial point:
"Mueller, being barred from indicting the president, has done the investigation, has apparently declined even to evaluate the matter as a prosecutor, and has laid out all of the facts and the arguments for and against treating the president’s behavior as criminal."
Edited by Peter Martin on 25 March 2019 at 9:26am
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Brian Floyd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 July 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 8644
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| Posted: 25 March 2019 at 10:24am | IP Logged | 3
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Trump is a delusional, egomaniacal narcissist who either outright lies or twists `facts' for his own benefit. He's an evil, racist piece of garbage.
However, his hardcore supporters - like Thomas - will eat up any piece of drivel or outright bullshit he spews as if its the Gospel.
People can keep defending them all they want, but the truth is that he's garbage as president and as a human being.
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Thomas Woods
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Joined: 09 June 2004
Location: United States
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| Posted: 25 March 2019 at 10:39am | IP Logged | 4
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I did read your 4th paragraph.
------
It looks like what happened is I had collusion on my
mind when posting that instead of obstruction.
I thought I heard from at least 2 people that you can't
charge someone with obstruction on a case where no wrong
doing was done. Since he didn't Collude, he can't be
charged with Obstruction. Not sure if that is true or
not.
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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
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| Posted: 25 March 2019 at 1:16pm | IP Logged | 5
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Since he didn't Collude, he can't be
charged with Obstruction. Not sure if that is true or
not.-------------------------- It's not true, but realistically no-one is going to charge a sitting president with obstruction of justice when there is no underlying crime.
Overall, I'd have to say it's a good thing that no-one colluded with the Russians and it's good for democracy that we can have the Dept of Justice scrutinising the election. Though it's a shame that the President has been so defensive about the whole thing.
Would have been nice, given we now know there were multiple (rebuffed) Russian attempts to aid the Trump campaign, that the Trump campaign was not more transparent about it. Did anyone sound an alarm about these attempts?
Edited by Peter Martin on 25 March 2019 at 1:17pm
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Brennan Voboril
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Joined: 15 January 2011
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| Posted: 25 March 2019 at 1:29pm | IP Logged | 6
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Brian all of that may, or may not, be true but the fact remains there was no collusion with Russia - which has been the main story totally dominating the news for 2+ years, amazingly. Matt Taibbi has called Russiagate this generation's WMD i.e. a monumental fraud.
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Shaun Barry
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Joined: 08 December 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 6931
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| Posted: 25 March 2019 at 1:31pm | IP Logged | 7
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All I can say to all this is: Going forward, everyone will be insufferable to watch or listen-to on any of the 24-hour news channels!
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Conrad Teves
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Joined: 28 January 2014
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| Posted: 25 March 2019 at 2:30pm | IP Logged | 8
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Peter>>It's not true, but realistically no-one is going to charge a sitting president with obstruction of justice when there is no underlying crime.<<
Unless the crime is a obstructing an inquiry on a "sexual relationship." http://www.historyplace.com/unitedstates/impeachments/starr- excerpt.htm
Well, I for one (with no irony) am delighted our president was not an actual traitor prior to his election. I'm sure that sets the bar high enough to qualify him for reelection.
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Brennan Voboril
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| Posted: 25 March 2019 at 4:47pm | IP Logged | 9
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Conrad I think with the results of the Mueller report vindicating Trump it will take a miracle to defeat him in 2020. I just don't see it. Those pushing Russiagate put all their eggs in that flimsy basket, it was do or die. I think Trump, and the GOP, will now go on a counter-offensive, and go after those who said Trump was a Russian agent. It's a long list.
Edited by Brennan Voboril on 25 March 2019 at 5:06pm
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Dave Phelps
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| Posted: 25 March 2019 at 5:08pm | IP Logged | 10
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That assumes the only issue people had with Trump related to the possibility his campaign colluded with Russia. That's hardly the case. For example, the Democrats flipping the House had a lot more to do with healthcare than notional Russian ties.
Calling 2020 a slam dunk for Trump on this issue is as premature as calling 2020 a slam duck for the other side based on his consistently underwater approval ratings. Lot of ground to cover between now and the election. In particular we need to know who he'll be going up against.
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Joe Zhang
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| Posted: 25 March 2019 at 9:12pm | IP Logged | 11
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I get the impression that people in the news media are suffering post-traumatic flashbacks to the 2016 election. They convinced themselves that the Mueller report would be end of Trump. In this era of alternative as well as fake news, which has eroded their credibility, I wish they would get their sh*t together. By taking a side, they may get fans, but only through objectivity can they gain trust.
Edited by Joe Zhang on 25 March 2019 at 9:19pm
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Vinny Valenti
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| Posted: 25 March 2019 at 9:40pm | IP Logged | 12
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Oooh. I like that.
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