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Eric Ladd Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 4505
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Posted: 25 February 2019 at 3:50pm | IP Logged | 1
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Tongue in cheek with regard to JFK. Sorry you missed it. I'm not trying to simultaneously make a point and be a hypocrite. Clearly you get the point that judging each president without considering their respective challenges is stupid. I think we can skip how you would define "impact the country" since you say there are countless ways to do it. I have no desire to see how you would measure it. I would note that the supposed road to hell is paved with unsuccessful good intentions and successful bad intentions, but keep on trying to discount the good will of others.
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Paul Buchanan Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2018 Location: United States Posts: 87
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Posted: 25 February 2019 at 3:53pm | IP Logged | 2
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" Also, "Globalist" is a dog whistle for "Jew," just as "America First" is a dog whistle for "anti-Jew."
Could you tell me where I could pick up a copy of your little "Dog Whistle" Code book? You seem to have all the insights into these things that no one else has. I'd like to look up the term for the president who is so anti-Jew that he nullified the Iran deal, has a jewish daughter and grand-children, wore a yarmulka to the Wailing wall, and officially recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel after 50+ years.
***I sure hope I spelled everything correctly. The surest way to lose an argument is to misspell a word.
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Thomas Woods Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 June 2004 Location: United States Posts: 1356
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Posted: 25 February 2019 at 4:00pm | IP Logged | 3
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Thomas, when did Obama or Hillary say that loving your country is bad?
/-/ I don’t think They ever have, doing that openly would be suicide. It more by their actions, who they associate with, and who they defend.
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Paul Buchanan Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2018 Location: United States Posts: 87
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Posted: 25 February 2019 at 4:10pm | IP Logged | 4
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Tongue in cheek with regard to JFK. Sorry you missed it. I'm not trying to simultaneously make a point and be a hypocrite. Clearly you get the point that judging each president without considering their respective challenges is stupid. I think we can skip how you would define "impact the country" since you say there are countless ways to do it. I have no desire to see how you would measure it. I would note that the supposed road to hell is paved with unsuccessful good intentions and successful bad intentions, but keep on trying to discount the good will of others.
I can usually infer when someone is stating something tongue in cheek. but after reading a lot of the comments from people in this thread it becomes harder and harder to tell when people are joking. Some of the things I read on here are so ridiculous that in my wildest dreams I can't believe people are being serious. Unfortunately some are. I disagree with a lot you write Eric, but I don't see you as one of those people.
Obviously each president has different challenges in their terms of service. They each have to be judged by their results to the challenges they faced in their time. However, presidents that have faced similar challenges can be judged against one another. For instance, and thus far, Trump has seemingly had far greater success in the war on ISIS and in stabilizing the Korean peninsula than Obama did.
If you end up in hell because of someone else's actions, then it's not important whether their intentions were good or bad. You're still in hell either way. Good will is a plus. But good will with bad results means nothing.
Edited by Paul Buchanan on 25 February 2019 at 4:13pm
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Koroush Ghazi Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 October 2009 Location: Australia Posts: 1681
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Posted: 25 February 2019 at 5:29pm | IP Logged | 5
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Paul Buchanan wrote:
Let's suppose that Trump is the most morally reprehensible man to ever hold the Presidency (save the tired, unfunny jokes please). Can someone explain WHY that matters? |
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Yes I see your point. Why should being a hypocritical self-interested liar exempt one from holding the most senior position in public office? Why should cosying up to brutal dictators, subverting the rule of law, and imposing debunked economic theories such as trickle-down theory be considered a negative?
As long as some sort of barrier is built, who cares if it's actually a beautiful concrete solar-powered wall paid for by Mexico, or some sort of ineffective construct paid for by the American taxpayer? Why ARE people quibbling over little technicalities like this?
Fortunately, most of the people who support Trump can see beyond the moral issues - people like the evangelicals, the people who condemned Hillary Clinton for running a child sex slave ring out of a Pizza shop, the QAnon conspiracy theorists who say that globalist pedophiles have infiltrated all levels of Government - these people are smart enough to judge candidates based on the facts, not morality.
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Peter Martin Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 15990
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Posted: 25 February 2019 at 6:13pm | IP Logged | 6
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Former Fed head honcho Janet Yellen on Trump today:
"I doubt that he would even be able to say that the Fed's goals are maximum employment and price stability, which is the goals that Congress have assigned to the Fed. He's made comments about the Fed having an exchange-rate objective in order to support his trade plans, or possibly targeting the U.S. balance of trade. And, you know, I think comments like that shows a lack of understanding of the impact of the Fed on the economy, and appropriate policy goals."
She also said: "When I continually hear focus by the president and some of his advisers on remedying bilateral trade deficits with other trade partners, I think almost any economist would tell you that there's no real meaning to bilateral trade deficits, and it's not an appropriate objective of policy."
I would totally agree with this. The bilateral trade deficits used by the Trump administration to judge whether a trading relationship is 'fair', is a basically useless measure. For example, iPhones shipped to the US from China are measured as being a $225 import from China. However, the vast majority of components in the iPhone come from outside China and all that's done in China is assembling and testing the device. That work constitutes about $5 per device, The rest of the value actually comes from the components from an international supply chain. Therefore, saying there is a $225 trade deficit with China per device is a load of nonsense. But that's how the Trump administration measures it -- and is using as the basis for introducing its protectionist tariffs.
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David Allen Perrin Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2009 Location: United States Posts: 3582
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Posted: 25 February 2019 at 7:14pm | IP Logged | 7
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@Brian.
We are brother. We are.
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Eric Ladd Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 4505
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Posted: 25 February 2019 at 7:49pm | IP Logged | 8
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Gotta love the "ends justify the means" mentality. Oh well, I'm done talking to the wall.
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Koroush Ghazi Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 October 2009 Location: Australia Posts: 1681
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Posted: 25 February 2019 at 8:45pm | IP Logged | 9
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Except the "ends" are all "dead ends", e.g.:
Paul Buchanan wrote:
thus far, Trump has seemingly had far greater success in the war on ISIS and in stabilizing the Korean peninsula than Obama did. |
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No, he has not. Just to take the North Korean example, Trump's first Historic Photo Opportuni..er, Summit with lovable Kim Jong Un was where they vaguely agreed that NK would denuclearize, sometime in the future, with no firm milestones or deadline.
As incredible a breakthrough as this ethereal non-binding agreement may seem to those whose history books start at 2016, North Korea has signed similar agreements many times in the past 30 years - see thisWired Article - and has broken all of them.
Kim has done the same with Trump, as there's mounting evidence that NK has actually increased production of nuclear material immediately after Trump's last triumphant capitulation.
US intelligence agencies have said that Kim will never give up his nukes, they're his only bargaining chip. So expect more hot air from the latest summit as the master negotiator comes back from Vietnam with yet more magic beans in return for legitimizing a dictator.
Trump is being played badly by Kim Jong Un. So even the "he's a bad guy but he's doing good things" argument doesn't hold. The simple fact is that he's an incompetent moron, who is harming not only the USA, but the entire planet.
About the only good thing that can result from all of this is possibly a Captain America vs. Donald Trump mini-series in the future.
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Paul Buchanan Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2018 Location: United States Posts: 87
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Posted: 25 February 2019 at 9:06pm | IP Logged | 10
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Gotta love the "ends justify the means" mentality. Oh well, I'm done talking to the wall.
Gotta love the "oversimplifying to the point of inaccuracy while never addressing the main issue being raised and then feigning frustration with the whole thing " mentality.
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Paul Buchanan Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2018 Location: United States Posts: 87
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Posted: 25 February 2019 at 9:38pm | IP Logged | 11
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Except the "ends" are all "dead ends", e.g.:
Paul Buchanan wrote:
thus far, Trump has seemingly had far greater success in the war on ISIS and in stabilizing the Korean peninsula than Obama did. |
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Wow! I see what you did there. That's the kind of clever humor I've come to expect after reading your previous replies. Though this time you were actually trying to be funny. Shecky Ghazi ladies and gents! Give it up for Shecky Ghazi!
No, he has not. Just to take the North Korean example, Trump's first Historic Photo Opportuni..er, Summit with lovable Kim Jong Un was where they vaguely agreed that NK would denuclearize, sometime in the future, with no firm milestones or deadline.
How many missiles has NK launched over Japan since their first meeting? How many times has Guam been threatened? How many US soldiers bodies were returned? And of course Kim being the first North Korean leader to visit the South was nothing either.....But hey, nothing to see here right? Progress? What progress? As incredible a breakthrough as this ethereal non-binding agreement may seem to those whose history books start at 2016, North Korea has signed similar agreements many times in the past 30 years - see thisWired Article - and has broken all of them.
How many billions did Trump give NK compared to the past presidents that were played? You seem to be a historian on the subject. Kim has done the same with Trump, as there's mounting evidence that NK has actually increased production of nuclear material immediately after Trump's last triumphant capitulation. US intelligence agencies have said that Kim will never give up his nukes, they're his only bargaining chip. So expect more hot air from the latest summit as the master negotiator comes back from Vietnam with yet more magic beans in return for legitimizing a dictator.
You seem to have everything worked out already. Come home Trump. Nothing for you to do in Vietnam. God forbid you couldn't wrap everything up in one meeting after 65 years of hostilities. Nuclear missile testing has stopped. Production likely hasn't. Not where things need to be ultimately, but it may be worth allowing the process to play out a bit more before declaring Trump a failure.
Trump is being played badly by Kim Jong Un. So even the "he's a bad guy but he's doing good things" argument doesn't hold. The simple fact is that he's an incompetent moron, who is harming not only the USA, but the entire planet.
About the only good thing that can result from all of this is possibly a Captain America vs. Donald Trump mini-series in the future.
And once again you revert back to your typical argumentative logic of resorting to ad-hominem attacks. Predictable. But maybe you want to sit back a little bit and see how things play out before you so neatly wrap everything up for the rest of us.
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Koroush Ghazi Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 October 2009 Location: Australia Posts: 1681
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Posted: 26 February 2019 at 6:32am | IP Logged | 12
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Touche Paul, you very nicely debunked everything I said, without even having to resort to facts.
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