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Eric Sofer Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014 Location: United States Posts: 4789
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Posted: 03 October 2018 at 2:10pm | IP Logged | 1
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Perjure means to lie when giving testimony or evidence. Kavanaugh perjured himself when he said he never drank, and then he verified - quite adamantly - that he likes beer, he drank beer, he still drinks beer, and sometimes he has too many.
Also, he said he never drank until he passed out... but sometimes he fell asleep. He IS a judge, and it IS game of semantics, but the difference here seems to be razor thin.
Technically, he might have perjured himself when he said that the Democrats were going to get it when he got to the Supreme Court, when he, as a judge, has already sworn to be fair and balanced - but I'm not sure, because I do not know what judges swear to. Sounds pretty fishy to me, though.
As to his demeanor... I have no idea how I'd react to the allegations he is accused of, and - as you noted - in front of my wife and the Republican leaders of Congress as well. But I'd like to think that I would NOT be screaming, crying, and generally having hysterics while reading a prepared statement. He didn't just get mad... he had a tantrum.
Sure, I'll give you a break. But I won't to a man who wants to be on the Supreme Court. I know nothing of his manner as a judge over those 20+ years (2006 until now... well, close enough for military purposes.) He could be lousy or great. I know what I heard, I know what I saw. Should he be let off the hook for a bad day being interrogated? I think the answer is the same as, will he get an excused day off on the Supreme Court if he's having a bad one?
As for the FBI investigations... new testimony came up, new facts arose. So... why object to another investigation? Why object to the truth? What's the rush?
I'm desecrating the law? Ouch... that's rather harsh. Had Dr. Ford taken him to court for rape, then the situation would be exactly as you describe it. She did not; she reported an occurrence before he was selected as the nominee to the court. She was called upon to report at the hearing for the Supreme Court review. (She was present so that he could face his accuser. He just didn't.) The seventh FBI investigation is to determine the truth, not to force Kavanaugh to prove his innocence. Will he be accused of a crime? There's no way to know. Is he being treated as a criminal? He may be treated that way, but I feel this is just more of the process to prove his suitability to sit on the Supreme Court.
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Eric Sofer Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014 Location: United States Posts: 4789
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Posted: 03 October 2018 at 2:18pm | IP Logged | 2
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Steve... I dunno. Didn't Chicago lose close to 100 games this year? But this Cleveland fan concurs... the Yankess stink.
Back to the discussion... I cannot help but feel that Kavanaugh made the cut by promising Trump that a president could pardon himself for Federal crimes. Why is 45 so interested in this? Once again, the guilty fleeing where no one pursues (yet),
And let's be clear... I want the TRUTH. If Dr. Ford's claims are baseless and Judge Kavanaugh turns out to be a good chap, then okay - put him on the Supreme Court. But if he turns out to be undesirable and deplorable, I want him OUT - not only the Supreme Court, but the whole judicial system. I hope the Bar is paying close attention.
I'll admit, he sure didn't convince ME that he wasn't a scoundrel, but I'm only judging him via my representatives in Congress. So we'll see what develops, I think.
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Dave Phelps Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4185
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Posted: 03 October 2018 at 6:40pm | IP Logged | 3
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Paul Buchanan wrote:
I suppose the 6 previous FBI investigations mean nothing then. |
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Focus areas matter. Routine background investigations generally avoid pre-18 periods unless there's a compelling reason and the allegation hadn't come out yet. It may have come out that he was a bit of a partier in college, but that's hardly a deal breaker with clearances and such as long as no criminal charges were filed.
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They then agreed to a 7th, so there goes your argument. |
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After one of their needed votes insisted on it. If Jeff Flake had said, "nah, I'm good," there wouldn't have been an investigation so it's a little disingenuous to make it sound like the GOP was perfectly happy to do this.
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I remember reading about the Salem witch trials and thinking how ignorant, naive, and ugly those people were back then. That could never happen today I thought. People are too informed and intelligent today for something like that to happen......It's sad to realize people are just as stupid as they were over 300 years ago. |
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If, when the Ford allegations came out, Kavanaugh had just said "I have no recollection of these events, but I was a big partier when I was young. I regret any pain I may have caused during those days but I haven't been that man in 30 years," he would have been confirmed by now. There would have been those upset by that, but there would have been enough in the "boys will be boys;" "one mistake shouldn't ruin a life"; etc. crowd to get him past the hump. He probably would've gotten a couple Democrats to flip, too.
Instead, he decides to go all in on denial, to the point of saying he couldn't POSSIBLY have done such a thing because he didn't go to small gatherings where alcohol was served, didn't drink to excess, etc. So instead of leaving the focus on something that's hard to prove, the Ford allegation, he ties his credibility to things that are quite easy to prove. His school chums might not have seen him attempt to rape someone, but Drunk Brent stories don't seem to be that hard to come by. Heck, his calendar shows an example of a small gathering where beer was served. And if he's lying about that, by extension it makes his other denials less credible.
(If it helps, pretend he's a Democrat.)
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Jason Czeskleba Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004 Posts: 4643
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Posted: 03 October 2018 at 10:27pm | IP Logged | 4
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Paul Buchanan wrote:
There are reportedly 300 FBI agents working on this - the 7TH! - FBI investigation. The FBI will investigate it thoroughly even though they don't have a date - hell even the year, location, the house layout keeps changing, changes to the timeframe and multiple inconsistent stories by Ford, or any witnesses. |
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Did any of the prior investigations cover the issue of possible sexual assault or misconduct? Did any of the prior investigations involve interviewing the people who have come forward with accusations, or others who might corroborate or disprove their accusations?
What do you think should be done about these accusations? Do you think they should simply be presumed false and ignored? Do you think it makes sense to rush through the appointment to a lifetime judicial post of someone who might be guilty of sexual assault, without first examining the charges?
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Brian Miller Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 31254
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Posted: 04 October 2018 at 4:37am | IP Logged | 5
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Of course he does. Like any good little Republican should.
Edited by Brian Miller on 04 October 2018 at 4:38am
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Joe Zhang Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 12857
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Posted: 04 October 2018 at 8:01am | IP Logged | 6
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I feel that even if Kavanaugh is appointed to SCOTUS, there should be another investigation, and if there is enough evidence, prosecution. Put him in a cell block for rapists and murders. I also feel that the Democrats are overplaying their hand here. The #MeToo movement has brought down many sexual predators among elite circles. But is Kavanaugh another Cosby or Weinstein? Or was he a horny, selfish moron, a stage many ordinary people go through in their youth. The Dems have to prove that Kavanaugh was engaged in criminal activity, not just hurtful behavior. Otherwise the Republicans will be able to spin it into the Dems putting all men in America on trial in the court of #MeToo/
Edited by Joe Zhang on 04 October 2018 at 8:22am
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Rebecca Jansen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018 Location: Canada Posts: 4635
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Posted: 04 October 2018 at 12:01pm | IP Logged | 7
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Not even factoring in any allegations just what we've heard from kavanaugh and things he's saud in the past ought to make him a terrible choice for a lifetime position on the highest court. Ridiculous. Trump only sees him as a wild card get of jail free card as far as I can see based on what he's said about presidents being indictable/investigatable or beholden to the constitution.
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Michael Roberts Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 14859
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Posted: 04 October 2018 at 12:04pm | IP Logged | 8
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The Dems have to prove that Kavanaugh was engaged in criminal activity, not just hurtful behavior.
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They have to do no such thing. As suggested upthread, if Kavanaugh had simply said, “I was an idiot teen who drank too much, and while I would have never attempted to rape anyone, my drunken antics obviously scared Dr. Ford, and I’m sorry,” we wouldn’t be here. People would have groused, but we would be stuck at he said/she said. Instead, he plays the “I’m a hardworking virgin who just happens to like beer” card, acts like a belligerent, entitled asshole, and tells idiotic, obvious lies to back up his stance.
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Michael Roberts Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 14859
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Posted: 04 October 2018 at 12:08pm | IP Logged | 9
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Trump only sees him as a wild card get of jail free card as far as I can see based on what he's said about presidents being indictable/investigatable or beholden to the constitution.
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Honestly, I don’t think he cares at this point. He’s already won. The attention is off him and the Mueller investigation, the base is now riled up for the November election, and he gets to deflect any future #MeToo allegations as partisan lies.
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Kevin Brown Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 May 2005 Location: United States Posts: 8989
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Posted: 04 October 2018 at 1:42pm | IP Logged | 10
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Looks like he'll be confirmed on Saturday.... Unless a few members of the GOP grow a spine and vote against him
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Steve De Young Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2008 Location: United States Posts: 3513
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Posted: 04 October 2018 at 1:59pm | IP Logged | 11
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The Dems have to prove that Kavanaugh was engaged in criminal activity, not just hurtful behavior.
--------------------------------------------------- Why is a prep school frat boy entitled to a seat on the Supreme Court? He doesn't have to be disqualified, the onus is on him to prove that he's qualified.
I really think this teen drinking stuff is a sideshow. The reality is, this guy is a partisan political hack who was rewarded for his efforts with a judicial appointment by W. He isn't a distinguished jurist. He isn't in the same league as Roberts or Gorsuch. THAT is why he shouldn't be approved.
And I challenge any Republican out there to really argue the case that "Brett" is the most distinguished conservative jurist in this nation, and that he has some kind of unique legal insight that the highest court in the land needs. There are better, more accomplished, and more deserving candidates who are just as conservative.
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Byron Graham Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 September 2004 Location: United States Posts: 935
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Posted: 04 October 2018 at 2:00pm | IP Logged | 12
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Perjury is a criminal activity. Just sayin'.
Edited by Byron Graham on 04 October 2018 at 2:01pm
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