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Brian Miller
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Posted: 24 August 2018 at 4:43pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

You can always leave. Or better yet, I’ll just put you on ignore so I don’t have to read your inane bullshit anymore. 
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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 24 August 2018 at 5:05pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I didn't like Bush Jr. but I definitely can't call him a racist, nor would I want to. With Trump it's simply an overwhelming fact that keeps being more impossible to deny or ignore.I don't know that people voted for him because of it or in spite of it, but it ought to be a massive in spite of for most, then again he made massive promises I suppose. If people had looked at his real record as a businessman, like the banks that refused to loan him money as a high risk, they would have avoided a serious mistake in who they've empowered. The equivalent of his infamous shooting someone on 5th avenue seems just around the corner now to test how 'strong' support for him is.


Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 24 August 2018 at 5:06pm
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Dave Phelps
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Posted: 24 August 2018 at 7:46pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

 Paul Buchanan wrote:
I'm fed up with the simple minded, bigoted characterization that everyone that didn't like Obama's Presidency is a racist.


Do you understand the difference between the term "a lot" (Kopperman's post) and the term "all?" There were those who didn't like Obama's policies on their merits. There were those who didn't like his policies because of his political affiliation. But there were also those who didn't like him because he was the wrong color. Pretending that isn't true is just as disingenuous as assuming ALL of the criticism is racially motivated.


 QUOTE:
Sorry, but I don't like Government run healthcare.


So don't use the private insurance exchanges (and I'm assuming you won't sign up for Medicare when you're old enough). But "setting the playing field" for businesses to operate in, which would include the healthcare industry, is the Government's job.    


 QUOTE:
I don't like the IRS targeting conservative groups.


I always love this one. Various groups who don't want to pay taxes or publically report their donors attempt to file for a special tax exempt status. That tax exempt status only applies to "public interest" groups who spend 49% or less on directly political activities. A group of IRS agents who are overwhelmed by their workload but want to get applications processed in a timely fashion set aside groups with names that sound fairly political (liberal and conservative alike) and check them a little more thoroughly to determine if they are truly eligible for the status they're applying for. Far more often then not, all of those organizations get approved for that status.

And how is this story reported on? Even after all of the details came out?


 QUOTE:
I hate activist judges like Ginsberg, and Sotamayor.


You prefer the activist judges who agree with you. Fair enough.


 QUOTE:
I don't like over-regulation and big government.


What's over regulation? I know corporations hate that stuff, but they hate anything that costs them money. What regulations do you find so bothersome? (I'm sure there are plenty that are past their due dates, but I'm kind of okay with the ones that enable us to breathe.)

And what "big government" are you looking to get rid of? I'm honestly curious. Most people I see tend to be opposed to "Big Government" without having specifics to offer on what to cut or necessarily aware of what it is they're cutting. (See Rick Perry wanting to cut the Department of Energy as a candidate, getting tapped to run it under the Trump Administration and then publically admitting he didn't realize everything it did.) A lot of people hate the composite, but when you start going line by line, everything has supporters.

There's certainly room for right-sizing the Government. Waste happens. But to do it properly you need a scalpel, not a hammer.


 QUOTE:
I'm sickened by the crime in the democratically run cities of Chicago and Baltimore.


In the Republican run states of Illinois and Maryland. Some situations transcend parties.


 QUOTE:
But most of all I'm done with the reflexive, ignorant response that everyone that disagreed with Obama's presidency did it because he's black.


Then read more of what is actually said and filter out the persecution complex. There are certainly some vocal left wingers that were ready to cry racism as the sole motivator, but hardly a majority. (That said, there's evidence to support that Obama's race didn't help matters amongst a portion of the population.)


 QUOTE:
And Trump's a nazi too, so everyone that voted for him loves the third reich as well I guess.


No, just a particularly energetic portion of his supporters. Not saying they're the majority, or even close, but they're there. Pointing that out is not the same thing as saying everyone who voted for a Trump is a racist/Nazi/whatever.


 QUOTE:
Don't forget that narrative! Never mind that Trump deported a nazi jail guard this week, or that he moved the US embassy to Jerusalem after 40+ years of other Presidents' broken promises.


Asking here: Who promised that? My understanding was that Presidents always held firm on not doing it because it undermined the notion of a two state solution. Who said they would but didn't?


 QUOTE:
Or that Obama used tax dollars to try to oust Benjamin Netanyahu,


Had to look that one up.

So let's see: The Obama Administration sent a few hundred thousand to an organization promoting a "two state solution", which is in keeping with our official Government position. Using the infrastructure that money helped establish, the organization evolved into one with a goal of putting someone else in power than Netanyahu because they felt he was too hawkish. (Which I would say is a pretty fair assessment whether you feel him justified in being so or no.) So money intended for one purpose got used by the recipients towards another one and the State Department should've done a better job of ensuring that didn't happen. Not a particularly exciting conspiracy, is it?


 QUOTE:
and authorized hundreds of millions of dollars in cash to be flown to Iran as part or his nuclear "deal".


That's what happens when you unfreeze assets as part of a negotiated treaty. And why is the "deal" in quotes? Iran honored their part of the deal. They didn't do other things we would have liked them to have done, but the purpose of the deal was to hamper their nuclear program and to all people without an axe to grind with Iran, the deal succeeded in its intended purpose. Would it have been nice to have done more? Sure. But solving the immediate problem while, hopefully, laying ground work to expand on that in the future is sometimes all you can hope for.


 QUOTE:
Money that went to a corrupt government that has threatened Israel with nuclear destruction, as well as to hezbollah. But somehow Trump is the one called a nazi, not Obama.....


Iran threatens Israel with nuclear destruction and Obama arranges an international agreement to squelch Iran's nuclear program for at least a decade, if not indefinitely. Trump tears up the deal with nothing to replace it with so Iran could wind up with the bomb in a year or two unless Europe manages to convince them otherwise. If you think war with Iran is inevitable and it's best to get it over with (see Bolton and Netanyahu), then that makes sense. Otherwise, I'm not seeing how Israel benefitted here.

Either way, opposition to Netanyahu hardly makes one an anti-semite. (See your earlier rant about how opposition to Obama doesn't make one racist.)

Trump is considered racist because of things he does and says that come across as racist. You can be opposed to people entering the country illegal without referring to them as "animals" who are all here to join MS-13. The former is a genuine concern about border security. The latter is racism. And it's not just that, it's also his refusal to criticize those who engaging in actively racist behavior. You don't play the "both sides have good people" card when talking about a white supremacist rally.

You can call it "rough talk" or whatever or think the claims are overblown. But it's not like the "Trump is a racist crowd" don't have any leg to stand on.
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 24 August 2018 at 9:21pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Maybe Paul just likes to grab them by the pussy. 
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Paul Buchanan
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Posted: 24 August 2018 at 11:18pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

So don't use the private insurance exchanges (and I'm assuming you won't sign up for Medicare when you're old enough). But "setting the playing field" for businesses to operate in, which would include the healthcare industry, is the Government's job.

What does private insurance have to to with Federal Government run health care? It's the complete opposite. And by "setting the playing field" are you talking about the Fed under Obamacare not allowing catastrophic policies, or forbidding insurance coverage across state lines?  That's the type of federal government over regulation I'm talking about.

And yes I will use Medicare. I'll have forcibly paid into it for most of my life, and unfortunately because of that there aren't many other options. I will also have to supplement that as well with supplemental health insurance, because of the poor coverage of medicare. 

What's over regulation? I know corporations hate that stuff, but they hate anything that costs them money. What regulations do you find so bothersome? (I'm sure there are plenty that are past their due dates, but I'm kind of okay with the ones that enable us to breathe.)

No, it's not just the evil corporations that the that stuff. It's the small business start ups that take months for approval from the Fed. Talk to some small business owners and see what they say. I talk to them every month.

And no one is talking about the ones that "enable us to breathe". Nice attempt at a straw man, but you overreached again on that one. 

Here's a Washington Post article on Obama's regulations. There are many, many more as well...


And what "big government" are you looking to get rid of? I'm honestly curious. Most people I see tend to be opposed to "Big Government" without having specifics to offer on what to cut or necessarily aware of what it is they're cutting. (See Rick Perry wanting to cut the Department of Energy as a candidate, getting tapped to run it under the Trump Administration and then publically admitting he didn't realize everything it did.) A lot of people hate the composite, but when you start going line by line, everything has supporters.  

There's certainly room for right-sizing the Government. Waste happens. But to do it properly you need a scalpel, not a hammer. 

The "BIG Government" I'm looking to get rid of is the one that tried to take over the health care system. The one that took over the student loan program, and wants to make college "free".The one that took over the PRIVATE American auto industry and forced private companies to close dealerships. The Federal education department that has spent billions while forcing teachers to follow ridiculous guidelines.The one that's run up a 20 Trillion dollar debt. 

No, just a particularly energetic portion of his supporters. Not saying they're the majority, or even close, but they're there. Pointing that out is not the same thing as saying everyone who voted for a Trump is a racist/Nazi/whatever.

How many are there Dave? It's minuscule, and unfortunately those types have always been there. Obama had them too - not nazis, but Black Panthers who threatened people at polling places. They're gnats and unimportant. The recent Charlottsville anniversary march had 30 white supremacists marching. 30! At a place where they could get all the attention they could ever want. So let's not continue to falsely inflate their numbers or impact.

Asking here: Who promised that? My understanding was that Presidents always held firm on not doing it because it undermined the notion of a two state solution. Who said they would but didn't?  

It's easy enough to find, but I'll do your homework for you. Here's statements from Obama, Bush, and Clinton.


So let's see: The Obama Administration sent a few hundred thousand to an organization promoting a "two state solution", which is in keeping with our official Government position. Using the infrastructure that money helped establish, the organization evolved into one with a goal of putting someone else in power than Netanyahu because they felt he was too hawkish. (Which I would say is a pretty fair assessment whether you feel him justified in being so or no.) So money intended for one purpose got used by the recipients towards another one and the State Department should've done a better job of ensuring that didn't happen. Not a particularly exciting conspiracy, is it? 

I'd say using US taxpayers money, to try to effect the outcome of one of our closest allies democratic election to oust it's sitting Prime Minister IS a pretty exciting conspiracy...... In fact it sounds eerily familiar....I guess that isn't very exciting to you though is it Dave?

That's what happens when you unfreeze assets as part of a negotiated treaty. And why is the "deal" in quotes? Iran honored their part of the deal. They didn't do other things we would have liked them to have done, but the purpose of the deal was to hamper their nuclear program and to all people without an axe to grind with Iran, the deal succeeded in its intended purpose. Would it have been nice to have done more? Sure. But solving the immediate problem while, hopefully, laying ground work to expand on that in the future is sometimes all you can hope for.

You sure paint a rosy picture of the Iran agreement. But people can differ on the effectiveness of the agreement. However to say Iran "honored their agreement" is certainly up for debate:


But why was the $400million that US taxpayers paid to victims of Iranian sponsored terror attacks never reimbursed from the funds sent to Iran-as Bill Clinton promised (and congress approved) in 2000? Seems like Obama should have followed that law and held a few pallets of cash back from the mullahs.

Trump is considered racist because of things he does and says that come across as racist. You can be opposed to people entering the country illegal without referring to them as "animals" who are all here to join MS-13. The former is a genuine concern about border security. The latter is racism. And it's not just that, it's also his refusal to criticize those who engaging in actively racist behavior. You don't play the "both sides have good people" card when talking about a white supremacist rally.  

You have a way of twisting words to fit your narrative Dave. However Trump never called people all entering this country illegally "animals" as you stated. He was talking about MS-13 members. Had he said what you claim, then you'd have a better argument of it being racist. But that's not what he said, despite your attempts to twist his words into what you wanted him to say.
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Paul Buchanan
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Posted: 24 August 2018 at 11:21pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Maybe Paul just likes to grab them by the pussy. 

Brian, does your mother know that you're down in her basement typing naughty words? 
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 25 August 2018 at 2:59am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

 Paul Buchanan wrote:
Never mind that Trump deported a nazi jail guard this week...

Someone two administrations (three if you count Trump) have tried to deport since he outed himself nearly two decades ago but because of the incredible difficulty working with international extradition it's taken nearly this long.  Don't give Trump credit for something that started when you were a kid and long before Trump ever thought to run for president. He didn't deport him.  The system did.  

But, sure, continue to claim in the simplest terms that Trump isn't a racist because he deported a Nazi other administrations worked to deport while turning a blind eye to comments about "shithole countries", Mexico "not sending us their best", locking children up in cages to be abused in the most horrible fashion and being completely fine with not returning hundreds to their parents simply because this administration didn't think their strategy through enough to account for separation and ultimate reunification. Right.  Trump's all good on this account.

Nothing to see here.  Moving on.  
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 25 August 2018 at 3:08am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

 Dave Phelps wrote:
 Paul Buchanan wrote:
I hate activist judges like Ginsberg, and Sotamayor.
You prefer the activist judges who agree with you. Fair enough.

BINGO!  No mention of the conservative judges.  None.  Just the one's that don't bend Paul's way.  So Thomas isn't activist, he's just a solid juror.  Scalia wasn't activist, he was just "voting his conscious".  But Ginsberg and Sotamayor?  ACTIVIST!!!

Bullshit. 

It's especially bullshit because they've been in the minority on the court for longer than they have had the majority.  You can only really be an activist when you have the ability to court change. Ginsberg and Sotamayor have spent the majority of their time on a conservative bench with Ginsberg delivering the dissenting opinion. 

Funny how someone who you align with is reasonable but someone you don't is activist.       


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Paul Buchanan
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Posted: 25 August 2018 at 8:36am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Someone two administrations (three if you count Trump) have tried to deport since he outed himself nearly two decades ago but because of the incredible difficulty working with international extradition it's taken nearly this long.  Don't give Trump credit for something that started when you were a kid and long before Trump ever thought to run for president. He didn't deport him.  The system did.  

But, sure, continue to claim in the simplest terms that Trump isn't a racist because he deported a Nazi other administrations worked to deport while turning a blind eye to comments about "shithole countries", Mexico "not sending us their best", locking children up in cages to be abused in the most horrible fashion and being completely fine with not returning hundreds to their parents simply because this administration didn't think their strategy through enough to account for separation and ultimate reunification. Right.  Trump's all good on this account.

Nothing to see here.  Moving on.  

Nice spin here Matt. And once again showing your bias...... The reason he wasn't deported was that Germany had refused to accept his deportation. That was the hold up. Or at least it was until Trump made it enough of a priority that they finally acquiesced and accepted him back. Had another President prioritized his deportation, it would have happened much sooner. But it took someone to prioritize it. It wouldn't have just happened by waiting some more.

Now do the embassy moving to Jerusalem for me. I suppose that was also just a coincidence that the move was authorized under Trump after 40+ years of promises. He was just in the right place at the right time, right Matt? Time caught up on that one too I guess.....lol....

BINGO!  No mention of the conservative judges.  None.  Just the one's that don't bend Paul's way.  So Thomas isn't activist, he's just a solid juror.  Scalia wasn't activist, he was just "voting his conscious".  But Ginsberg and Sotamayor?  ACTIVIST!!!

Bullshit. 

It's especially bullshit because they've been in the minority on the court for longer than they have had the majority.  You can only really be an activist when you have the ability to court change. Ginsberg and Sotamayor have spent the majority of their time on a conservative bench with Ginsberg delivering the dissenting opinion. 

Funny how someone who you align with is reasonable but someone you don't is activist.   

So according to you Matt you can only be an activist judge if you're on the side of the majority decision? Wow, that's one helluva definition there. A justice can't be activist unless the majority agrees? It's solely about the majority outcome and not what the individual justices legal decision was based upon? Sorry, that makes NO sense. 

It's not about either side "voting your conscience", as you mention. That's the very definition of an activist judge for God's sake! That's the whole point-basing a decision on the outcome instead of basing it on the constitutional parameters and limitations. Not saying it never happens with conservative judges, but by its very definition it doesn't happen with "strict constructionist" justices. And I'm not solely talking about at the Supreme Court level either.

Put down your Bingo card and read the opinion in Trump vs. Hawaii. It's a pretty simple understanding of following the Constitution vs activism. 




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Dave Phelps
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Posted: 25 August 2018 at 8:54am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Thanks for responding; I appreciate the insights.

 Paul Buchanan wrote:
or forbidding insurance coverage across state lines?


Insurance companies can sell to whatever states they like. They just need to follow that state's rules. Wouldn't forcing, say, Kansas to follow California's rules or vice versa be more of a "Big Government overreach" than letting the states set their own rules and expecting those who do business there to follow them?


 QUOTE:
Nice attempt at a straw man, but you overreached again on that one


Hey, I opened with "plenty that are past their due dates." But given Scott Pruitt's actions as head of the EPA, I really don't think the "clean air" one is all that much of a strawman.

And you do realize that citing the poor small businesses is just as much an oversimplification as me citing evil corporations, right?


 QUOTE:
It's easy enough to find, but I'll do your homework for you. Here's statements from Obama, Bush, and Clinton.


Okay, thanks. So Obama mis-spoke and promptly back-tracked, Bush promised, but as candidate, not President (but we'll call that one) and Clinton said he liked the idea, but not at the cost of undermining the peace process. I think your article supported my position more than yours.


 QUOTE:
I'd say using US taxpayers money, to try to effect the outcome of one of our closest allies democratic election to oust it's sitting Prime Minister IS a pretty exciting conspiracy...


Sure, except that's not what happened. Money was given to an organization for one purpose that had nothing to do with elections. Later, that organization adopted a different one, but the check had already cleared.

If you worked at a Bed, Bath and Beyond, sold me a frying pan and a year later I used it to murder somebody, your political enemies would happily post articles saying "Buchanan supplied Phelps with the murder weapon." But that would hardly be an accurate portrayal of your intentions.


 QUOTE:
You sure paint a rosy picture of the Iran agreement. But people can differ on the effectiveness of the agreement. However to say Iran "honored their agreement" is certainly up for debate:


Remember how I referred to people with an axe to grind about Iran? The people in charge of ensuring Iran was compliant and the Trump Administration itself said that Iran was honoring the terms of the agreement. That's why it was such a big deal when Trump withdrew from it anyway. Even Netanyahu had to focus on Iran's nuclear activities from before the agreement was put into place.


 QUOTE:
However Trump never called people all entering this country illegally "animals" as you stated. He was talking about MS-13 members.


 Donald Trump wrote:
We have people coming into the country, or trying to come in — and we’re stopping a lot of them — but we’re taking people out of the country. You wouldn’t believe how bad these people are. These aren’t people. These are animals. And we’re taking them out of the country at a level and at a rate that’s never happened before. And because of the weak laws, they come in fast, we get them, we release them, we get them again, we bring them out. It’s crazy.


When called on it, he said he was specifically referring to MS-13. (Or was it a spokesperson?) And yes, a comment about MS-13 is what started the rant. The problem is the math. There are an estimated 10,000 MS-13 members in the US, including some US citizens. ICE had nabbed a couple thousand of them in the past year. There are about 50,000 border arrests a month. He has never, to my knowledge (and I'm open to being corrected), in any way said that MS-13 is a small but distinct minority in a sea of people who want to make a better life for themselves but are going about it the wrong way. At best, it's unfortunate wording. But is a racist interpretation really that far off the wall?
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James Johnson
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Posted: 25 August 2018 at 7:54pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Here's a Washington Post article on Obama's regulations. There are many, many more as well...


====================================

Post or Times. Which is it?
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Richard Stevens
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Posted: 25 August 2018 at 8:05pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Not like it's in good faith either way.
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